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Yankees worried about the Redsox

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Yankees worried about the Redsox Empty Yankees worried about the Redsox

Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:44 pm

Yankees worried about the Redsox

Yankees worried about the Redsox

vs Yankees 8-10 -- Beckett ERA 4.39, Yanks hit .303 --- Dicey-K ERA 6.12 --- Big Mouth Schilling ERA 5.51, Yanks hit .311--- Okijima ERA 8.38, Yanks hit .293 --- Shakeyfield ERA 10.93, Yanks hit .333 ---- Papsmear 0-2, ERA 3.86

Yessir, the Yankees sure fear the Redsox. This aint Colorado


Ted Williams was NOT a choker

"The last man to hit .400--- batted .200 with 1 rbi in a seven game world series loss. He was not a choker, was he?"

signed, AROD

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Yankees worried about the Redsox Empty Re: Yankees worried about the Redsox

Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:45 pm

Source: Nats agree to terms with Lo Duca



http://blog.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2007/12/source_nats_agree_to_terms_wit.html?nav=rss_blog

The Washington Nationals have agreed to terms on a one-year contract with free agent catcher Paul Lo Duca, a source with knowledge of the situation said today. Terms were not immediately available, though Lo Duca was thought to be seeking $5 million.

Lo Duca, 35, played the past two seasons with the New York Mets. A .288 career hitter and four-time all-star, he played previously for the Los Angeles Dodgers and Florida Marlins.

Nationals officials said they had no announcement on the deal scheduled for today. General Manager Jim Bowden did not return a message inquiring about the possibility of a deal.

Lo Duca, who the Mets decided not to bring back, was involved in discussions with the Nationals and the Toronto Blue Jays at last week's winter meetings. After trading starter Brian Schneider to the Mets in a package that brought Lastings Milledge to Washington, he Nationals are in need of a veteran catcher to help tutor Jesus Flores - who they believe will be their top catcher in the future - for 2008.

Lo Duca hit .272 with a .311 on-base percentage and .378 slugging percentage in 119 games for the Mets last season. A right-handed hitter, he wouldn't be part of a straight platoon with the right-handed hitting Flores, but he would allow Manager Manny Acta to bring Flores along slowly, if necessary. Lo Duca has played at least 119 games in each of the last seven seasons.

The signing of a catcher could bring to a close the Nationals' major moves of what has already been a busy offseason.

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Yankees worried about the Redsox Empty Re: Yankees worried about the Redsox

Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:48 pm

Paul Lo Duca-C-Mets Dec. 10 - 2:48 pm et


Quote:
http://rotoworld.com/content/home_MLB.aspx

Paul Lo Duca and the Nationals have come to terms on a one-year deal, the Washington Post reports.
If true, Lo Duca picked the Nats over the Blue Jays. He'll serve as a one-year stopgap while Jesus Flores continues his development. It might be for the best that Flores goes to Triple-A to play regularly, and that'd be easier with a catcher like Lo Duca on the big club, rather than a Damian Miller-type veteran.
Source: Washington Post
Related: Jesus Flores
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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2007 08:14 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Loss of Vizcaino may be no loss at all

December
10

A few people e-mailed in this question today.

Luis Vizcaino is a Type B free agent. So once he signs with another team, the Yankees will receive compensation in the form of the first-round “sandwich pick” in the 2008 draft.

Given that the Yankees are willing to pay over slot to get top talent, this pick could prove to be far more valuable than The Viz. Think this stuff doesn’t matter? The Yankees received two picks in the 2006 draft as compensation for losing Tom Gordon as a free agent and selected Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy.

LaTroy Hawkins was not classified, so Rockies receive no compensation for him.
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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2007 12:16 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
QUOTE
Free agent outfielder Kosuke Fukudome plans to announce late Monday night U.S. time whether he will play in Japan in 2008 or pursue one of several offers from Major League Baseball clubs, his agent told ESPN.com.
QUOTE
"If the report was accurate, you would have seen quotes from the player or the [Yomiuri] club," Urbon said. "He hasn't made up his mind yet. When he does make up his mind, the first point of communication will be to the clubs in Japan."


This back and forth is getting on my nerves. But if he does decide to come play in the States, his best offer will probably come from Towers unless he wants to start off the season with an outfield of Lane-Hairston-Macias, yuck.


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Yankees worried about the Redsox Empty Re: Yankees worried about the Redsox

Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:49 pm

Mr.Bryant, great article on Senator Mitchell aka Boston Redsox Director... I blame Bud Selig for this hiring Mitchell. Since Selig are best friends with John Henry and Larry Lucchinno... How come none of Redsox players are mention in Mitchell investigation? Senator Mitchell motive was to embarrassed players in different organization not Redsox of course. They're clean.. What are your thoughts? Conspiracy or not ? I think Selig's so sick and tired of Yankees winning all time to He choose his best friend Mr.Henry buy The Redsox not Jim Dolan.



Jim Dolan could have been The Redsox Owner?
Quote:


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142651

Conflicted

Mitchell was named director of the Boston Red Sox in late December 2001, immediately following the purchase of the team by the partnership of John Henry, Larry Lucchino and Tom Werner. In 2002, the team's first media guide under the Henry group listed Mitchell sixth on a seven-person executive masthead, above legal counsel Lucinda Treat and below only the three owners and vice chairmen Leslie Otten and David Ginsburg.

It was not the first time Mitchell would have a financial stake in a baseball team. At the same time he joined the Red Sox, Mitchell was a member of the board of directors of the Walt Disney Co., the parent company of the Anaheim Angels and eventual 2002 World Series champions. He has been on the Disney board since 1994, and was chairman at Disney from 2004-06.

But from the beginning, the Red Sox sale was a particular sensitive issue for Selig. The commissioner was accused of engineering the $660 million Red Sox transaction to the Henry group, while various other competitors to buy the Red Sox, such as HBO and CableVision founder Charles Dolan, believed the Henry group's bid had not been the highest. Dolan reportedly believed he had outbid Henry by nearly $100 million, and a bid by Miles Prentice was said to be the highest, at $755 million. Selig denied any involvement in managing the sale of the team or that he favored Henry, who had owned the Florida Marlins, or Werner, who endured a turbulent experience as owner of the San Diego Padres during the early 1990s when baseball was embroiled in a rift between large- and small-market franchises. Selig, who was fond of Werner, watched the bitterly divided owners push Werner out of the game in 1993 and told him he would run a team again one day.
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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2007 04:46 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Big Leaguer
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Group: Members
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Joined: November 29 06
From: NJ
Member No.: 483

Warn: (0%) -----


Nomar = Steriod user. That's my opinion. He got hurt and never been the same player since.

Jeter = Clean..

Jeter's was clutch player and made better players around him. That's why He's captain.. Meanwhile Nomar wasn't.. Look at 1999 and 2003 ALCS. The Redsox lost those games with Nomar being with a team.





So Jeter's overrated then and wasn't main factor at all in postseason play?

Fact- Nomar never won World Series with Redsox.. True or False?

Fact- Curse of Nomar- The Redsox finally beats Yankees in 2004 when Nomar left the team..

Fact- Jeter leads in postseason in hits




Jeter's lifetime Batting Avg .317 plus + Clutch factor put in and intangibles


Seasonal Averages (per 162 games played)
YEARS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
11.33 162 656 122 208 34 5 17 82 67 114 23 6 .317 .388 .462 .850

Meanwhile Nomar lifetime Batting Avg. - Doesn't have The "it" factor than Jeter have.

Seasonal Averages (per 162 games played)
YEARS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
8.11 162 649 109 205 44 6 27 110 47 63 11 4 .315 .364 .526 .890

source- Espn

Last edited by Arclight44 on 12 Dec 2007 04:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2007 04:49 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Levine On Fukudome

Interesting stuff from ESPN 1000's Bruce Levine this morning regarding Kosuke Fukudome.

* The Rangers offered the most money.
* The White Sox were not outbid - they offered about the same as the Cubs. However, Fukudome did not want to displace Jermaine Dye from right field.
* Fukudome was just intrigued by the Cubs, and liked the idea of being their first Japanese player.
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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2007 04:51 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What are you talking about? If you want to argue about the IT factor and such, fine. But that's what I'm saying and that's what that Boston fan was saying. You argue Jeter is better basically because of rings, clutch, etc. If you want to use trivial things like rings to determine who is a better player, fine. Do it. But don't get mad when other teams do it as well.

And better comparison:

Jeter career OPS+ 122
Nomah career OPS+ 125
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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2007 04:55 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What are you talking about? If you want to argue about the IT factor and such, fine. But that's what I'm saying and that's what that Boston fan was saying. You argue Jeter is better basically because of rings, clutch, etc. If you want to use trivial things like rings to determine who is a better player, fine. Do it. But don't get mad when other teams do it as well.

And better comparison:

Jeter career OPS+ 122
Nomah career OPS+ 125




QUOTE(EnterRivera @ Dec 12 2007, 11:50 AM) *
Nomah has a higher slugging % and a higher OPS.

.002 DIFFERENCE ON BA OH NOEZ


And a big part of the difference is that Nomar totally fell apart after the trade due to major injuries. I already said that Jeter maintained his production longer and is now clearly the better player. But at the time he wasn't.

At the end of the 2001 season, Nomar's career line looked like this:

.332 BA
.381 OBP
.570 SLG
139 OPS+

Jeter's line was:
.320 BAT
.392 OBP
.470 SLG
122 OPS+




I'm not mad at all.. The Reason Why Redsox get to world series this year because They did spend The money in the offseason Am I right ? True or False? Also, The Redsox have the pitching and an Ace like Beckett.. Yankees an Wang so called ace and his putrid performance.

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Yankees worried about the Redsox Empty Re: Yankees worried about the Redsox

Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:49 pm

If Yankees finish third in the Division Do you think Hank and Cash will spend The Money like Redsox did in 2006?
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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2007 05:04 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The Redsox won another world Series. Yankees needs an Ace to matchup with Beckett. Hank please spend the money on Santana....
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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2007 12:45 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
40-man roster is full but you have to cut three., Who are you going to drop?

As it stands, the 40-man roster is very inflexible (it appears at the end of this note). It is this way partially because of all the young pitching talent the Yankees wanted to protect from the Rule V draft.

So, just to add Rivera, Alex and LaTroy, you have to cut three people. Who would you cut?

Let's work our way up from the bottom.





Designated Hitters
The Yankees are using (wasting?) a roster spot on Giambi. With three spots we need to clear, a roster spot is very, very valuable right now. The Yankees sure won't swallow his contract and cut him, but I would. I've seen enough of him in his time in pinstripes to be comfortable moving on without him.

Outfielders
For obvious reasons, you keep Abreu, Cabrera, Damon and Matsui. But with Giambi gone, you can have four OF for three positions because one of them is going to DH (not full-time), the other three will play the field. I know already that Melky is my every day CF and further know that when I sit him down for any extended period of time, his bat disappears. Melky isn't a bench player, he needs to play every day. I've reclassified Shelley Duncan below.

Infielders
Cano and Jeter are no-brainers. You can't drop Gonzalez or Miranda without passing them through waivers and I'm not sure the Yankees would want to do that. With Giambi gone, someone has to play first. That's going to be Shelley Duncan, platooning with Wilson Betemit.

Catchers
Posada and Molina stay, of course, and you must keep Cervelli on the roster in the unfortunate event Posada or Molina gets injured.

Only pitchers are left and we've only cleared one spot. You could argue that Betemit could go if you want Shelley Duncan to be your full-time first baseman, but then who's going to be your utility guy? If you're going to sign someone else then you need to clear a FOURTH roster spot. Have I mentioned that we've only cleared one roster spot so far? Let's keep going.

Pitchers
Let's assume the new additions to the 40-man roster are the people the Yankees wanted to protect from the Rule V draft and will stay on the roster because the Yankees wouldn't want to expose them to waivers. Although I need to research outrighting someone to the minors and whether or not that person needs to clear waivers to be removed from the 40-man roster.

But for now, let's say Beam, Brackman, Marquez, Patterson and White will remain on the 40-man. Similarly, we just traded for Albaladejo, so he's staying also.

Obvious keepers are Chamberlain, Farnsworth, Hughes, Kennedy, Mussina, Ohlendorf, Pettitte and Wang

Likely keepers are Britton, Igawa, Ramirez, Sanchez, Veras

That leaves the following:
Bruney, DeSalvo, Henn, Karstens, Pavano, Rasner, Wright

Pavano, whether he capitulates to take the minor league deal or not, is likely gone. After his agent waffled on the request to take a minor league deal, I would have cut him ten microseconds later. For all the Yankees have handed him these last three years, the very least he could do is help the team out in this manner.

You need to cut one more.

I'd say sayonara to DeSalvo. With all the starting depth on the roster he's not going to see the light of day, even if he can fix what went wrong the last time around.

...but now there's that pesky problem of not having a true utility guy or not having an every-day first baseman (rather than the Duncan/Betemit platoon), so perhaps the Yankees may need to clear even more roster space.

There's also the gaping hole in my reasoning that the Yankees aren't going to cut Giambi, so they're likely going to have to cut another pitcher.

Who else might you cut or trade if you were Gm of the Yankees? I would say Desalvo,Rasner, Karstens .

Pitchers
35 Mike Mussina
60 Ross Ohlendorf
-- Scott Patterson
45 Carl Pavano
46 Andy Pettitte
31 Edwar Ramirez
27 Darrell Rasner
77 Humberto Sanchez
41 Jose Veras
40 Chien-Ming Wang
-- Steven White
38 Chase Wright

Catchers
-- Francisco Cervelli
26 Jose Molina
20 Jorge Posada

Infielders
14 Wilson Betemit
24 Robinson Cano
63 Alberto Gonzalez
2 Derek Jeter
72 Juan Miranda

Outfielders
53 Bobby Abreu
28 Melky Cabrera
18 Johnny Damon
17 Shelley Duncan
55 Hideki Matsui

Designated Hitters
25 Jason Giambi


Jerry
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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2007 12:48 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Rosenthal-Vizcaino close with Rockies, Pirates

Quote:


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7557358

FOXSports.com, Updated 34 minutes ago


Free-agent reliever Luis Vizcaino is close to signing with either the Pirates or Rockies, according to major-league sources.

Vizcaino, 33, is expected to receive a multi-year deal after rejecting a one-year contract through salary arbitration with the Yankees.

The Rockies want Vizcaino to fill the void created by the loss of free agent LaTroy Hawkins, who signed a one-year $3.75 million deal with the Yankees.

The Pirates are entertaining trade offers for several of their relievers and recently sent right-hander Salomon Torres to the Brewers.

Vizcaino was 8-2 with a 4.30 ERA in 77 games for the Yankees last season.

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Yankees worried about the Redsox Empty Can The Melkman Get Some Love?

Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:50 pm

Can The Melkman Get Some Love?





There has been some serious Melky hating going on in the national media ever since it started to look like the Yankees were close to getting Santana...

Has he peaked @ 22 Neutral or is there more to come?


Rios
23 age, 426 ab, .286 avg, 24 2b, 7 3b, 1 hr, 28 rbi, 15 sb, 84 so, .721 ops
24 age, 481 ab, .262 avg, 23 2b, 6 3b, 10 hr, 59 rbi, 14 sb, 101 so, .703 ops

Williams
22 age, 320 ab, .238 avg, 19 2b, 4 3b, 3 hr, 34 rbi, 10 sb, 57 so, .686 ops
23 age, 261 ab, .280 avg, 14 2b, 2 3b, 5 hr, 26 rbi, 7 sb, 36 so, .760 ops

Melky
21 age, 460 ab, .280 avg, 26 2b, 2 3b, 7 hr, 50 rbi, 12 sb, 59 so, .751 ops
22 age, 545 ab, .273 avg, 24 2b, 8 3b, 8 hr, 73 rbi, 13 sb, 68 so, .718 ops


Melky played 06 + winterball and then practically everyday in 07. He hit the wall in September but had a .296 avg and .790 ops at the end of August.

Sometimes I wonder if he was only 3" taller if the entire view of him would be different.


I love how he supposedly has limited range but is somehow #3 in Range Factor behind only Crisp & Granderson.
And his outfield assist totals are somewhat inflated because nobody knows about his arm...even though he was in the top of the league in OF assists the year before as well. You can't tell me people were running on him because they didn't know about him so he got lucky a bunch. It's crap.Especially since he's been playing outfield in NY for 2 years now. It's not like Melky's been in the bigs for just a few weeks so nobody knows his deal.

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Yankees worried about the Redsox Empty Re: Yankees worried about the Redsox

Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:50 pm

First Inning- NY Prospects

http://firstinning.com/prospects/nyy/


Corner Infielders
Eric Duncan
23-year-old Designated hitter
On-Base:

Power:

Aarom Baldiris
24-year-old Third baseman
On-Base:

Power:

Middle Infielders
Robinson Cano
25-year-old Second baseman
On-Base:

Power:

Brian Cashman says, "I know he can play third base."
November 2007
Alberto Gonzalez
24-year-old Shortstop
On-Base:

Power:

Juan Francia
25-year-old Second baseman
On-Base:

Power:

Outfielders
Melky Cabrera
23-year-old Center fielder
On-Base:

Power:

The Yankees are offering Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera in exchange for Johan Santana
December 2007
Bronson Sardinha
24-year-old Right fielder
On-Base:

Power:

Brett Gardner
24-year-old Center fielder
On-Base:

Power:


Starting Pitchers
Philip Hughes
21-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

The Yankees are including Hughes in a trade package for Johan Santana.
November 2007
Humberto Sanchez
24-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Tyler Clippard
22-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Starting Pitchers
Ross Ohlendorf
25-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Jeff Karstens
25-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Steven Jackson
25-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Relief Pitchers
Chris Britton
24-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Relief Pitchers
Brian Bruney
25-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:


Near Ready Prospects
Catchers
Corner Infielders
Juan Miranda
24-year-old Designated hitter
On-Base:

Power:

Jared Greenwood
24-year-old Designated hitter
On-Base:

Power:

Middle Infielders
Reegie Corona
21-year-old Shortstop
On-Base:

Power:

Ramiro Pena
22-year-old Shortstop
On-Base:

Power:

Kevin Russo
23-year-old Second baseman
On-Base:

Power:

Outfielders
Colin Curtis
22-year-old Left fielder
On-Base:

Power:

Edwar Gonzalez
24-year-old Right fielder
On-Base:

Power:

Rudy Guillen
24-year-old Left fielder
On-Base:

Power:


Starting Pitchers
Joba Chamberlain
22-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Ian Kennedy
22-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Alan Horne
24-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Starting Pitchers
Jeffrey Marquez
23-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Brett Smith
24-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Relief Pitchers
J.B. Cox
23-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Jose Valdez
24-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Anthony Claggett
23-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Relief Pitchers
Eric Wordekemper
24-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Erick Abreu
24-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Kevin Whelan
23-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:


Prospects Two or More Years Away
Catchers
Francisco Cervelli
21-year-old Catcher
On-Base:

Power:

Jose Gil
21-year-old Catcher
On-Base:

Power:

Corner Infielders
Marcos Vechionacci
21-year-old Third baseman
On-Base:

Power:

Middle Infielders
Luis Nunez
21-year-old Shortstop
On-Base:

Power:

Mitchell Hilligoss
22-year-old Shortstop
On-Base:

Power:

Wilmer Pino
21-year-old Second baseman
On-Base:

Power:

Outfielders
Austin Jackson
20-year-old Center fielder
On-Base:

Power:

Jose Tabata
19-year-old Right fielder
On-Base:

Power:

Jonathan Poterson
21-year-old Left fielder
On-Base:

Power:


Starting Pitchers
George Kontos
22-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Angel Reyes
20-year-old LHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Christian Garcia
22-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Starting Pitchers
Michael Dunn
22-year-old LHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Ivan Nova
20-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Relief Pitchers
David Robertson
22-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

Relief Pitchers
Rolando Japa
22-year-old RHP
K:

Control:

GB:

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Yankees worried about the Redsox Empty Re: Yankees worried about the Redsox

Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:51 pm

Yanks using patience with pitching staff
JOEL SHERMAN
New York Post, Updated 48 minutes ago
Quote:


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7540838?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49


The Red Sox still were working through trade permutations with the Twins involving Johan Santana as the Winter Meetings concluded. The Mets believed they were back in the game for the ace left-hander.

The Yankees?

They left with Jonathan Albaladejo. They also left, if their word is to be believed, more dependent on young starters than any time during the George Steinbrenner era. It is easily argued, in fact, the Yankees have more riding on neophyte starters than any major league team.

Other clubs might have more inexperience in the rotation. But no other club will be banking the success of a $200 million payroll and the expiring baseball biological clocks of so many veterans on the young and test-less.

"It is not really an issue because we know what it is going in, there are no surprises," Joe Girardi said.

Ian Kennedy isn't even 23 yet, but he's still older than Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain. (Dave Sandford / Getty Images)

The Yanks know they are going to ask Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy to log big innings, carry huge expectations, fill substantial roles. Kennedy, who turns 23 in 12 days, is the oldest. So the Yanks are going to ask three righties 23 and under to help them overtake the Red Sox.

Would you like to guess how many righties in their age-23 season or younger have logged even 20 starts during Steinbrenner's previous 34 years of ownership? That would be three: Jim Beattie, 1978; Mike Morgan, 1982; and Doug Drabek, 1986.

Want to take a stab at how many total starts Joe Torre received from pitchers in their age-23 season or younger in his 12 years managing? Forty, but 19 came last year from Hughes, Kennedy and Tyler Clippard.

So clearly, the Yanks were trending this way. But they feel even stronger now about this direction with Girardi, who they view as more open-minded and tolerant of young arms than Torre. In his only season managing, 2006 for the Marlins, Girardi received 100 starts from pitchers in their age-23 season of younger.

"Everything is a challenge that you have to overcome," Girardi said. "That was my message (in Florida), and that won't change (with the Yankees)."

It is the right message. The Red Sox are not going to show mercy, as their pursuit of Santana demonstrates. The AL, if anything, is getting tougher to navigate for pitchers, especially with strong hitters such as Edgar Renteria and Miguel Cabrera flipping over from the NL to the Tigers.

Yankees GM Brian Cashman actually says the way the AL is constituted is why he is hoarding young, high-end starters.

"Because we are not just playing for next year," Cashman said. "We want to compete for a championship on a yearly basis, including next year. What we are doing is for a longer time, not just next year."




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So far, Cashman has held steady to that philosophy since May 2005, when he was given greater baseball authority. His greatest challenge, though, is coming this winter, with the Red Sox now a champion for the second time in four years. With the Red Sox still the frontrunner to land Santana, team him with Josh Beckett and aim toward dynasty.

Competitors, namely Boston, do not believe the Yanks are truly out of this competition. Both Cashman and Minnesota GM Bill Smith like to work away from the glare, and the glare will recede now with these meetings done. Few would be surprised to ultimately hear the Yanks have landed Santana for a package built around Hughes. An executive from a team interested in Oakland's Dan Haren predicted the Yanks would get the righty.

These are the Yankees, the embers of their reputation do not die quickly. So there remains this feeling that they will act as they have always acted, and go and get a front-line starter; pay the price in dollars and prospects they keep insisting they are disinclined to pay.

But the evidence is mounting that the Yankees want to fight their instinct, go with youngsters where "the payoff is on the backend," according to Cashman. The Yanks say they are willing to deal with the growing pains, risk the $200 million, risk their older players fading before these young arms fully blossom.



"No one is conceding anything," Cashman said. "But patience is just as important."

The Winter Meetings concluded with the Yanks owning patience, but not Johan Santana.

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:51 pm

With the winter meetings ending with something of a whimper -- final tally: one major trade, four or five minor trades, and no big free agent signings -- most contending clubs and wannabe contenders are still facing holes on their rosters that they'll have to try to fill in the coming weeks.

Here's a rundown of 18 clubs with at least outside shots at playoff spots in 2008 and a look at their current roster needs.

Phillies
Philadelphia Phillies
The defending National League East champions can at least breathe easier knowing that none of their divisional rivals has gotten much better. However, even with Brett Myers returning to the rotation, they're still two starters short, with neither Kyle Kendrick nor Adam Eaton having any business being in a contender's rotation.

Their bullpen could also use a boost; Tom Gordon was running on fumes in September, and Ryan Madson missed the last two months with a sore shoulder. The Phils are also planning on placing a wooden stake at third base this year -- if the ball hits it, the batter is out -- but they might consider acquiring a capable everyday player instead.

Mets
New York Mets
The Mets want a big-time starter to slot in ahead of Pedro Martinez, Oliver Perez and John Maine; right now, Orlando Hernandez is in their rotation, but counting on him for more than 12-15 starts is irrational exuberance. I'd stick Mike Pelfrey in the fifth spot for 30 starts to give him a chance to develop -- he won't turn 24 until January -- but they seem more inclined to use him to land an established ace.

The Mets could also stand to upgrade their relief corps, which played a huge part in their September swoon. Their lineup is set, and they seem willing to punt offense behind the plate.

Braves
Atlanta Braves
Atlanta is still short a center fielder -- it doesn't sound as if they're willing to jump Jordan Schafer to the majors, and Josh Anderson should only be a backup, so unless Brent Lillibridge can shift to the outfield, they'll have to look for an external solution.

Their current fifth starter is Mike Hampton, who hasn't pitched since what seems like the Carter administration, and their fourth starter, Tom Glavine, had little left in the tank by the end of 2007. Unlike most of the teams on this list, their bullpen is solid, more so if Mike Gonzalez can come back and pitch for most of next year.

Cubs
Chicago Cubs
The Cubs are hot and heavy for Kosuke Fukudome, who would probably play right field; if the Cubs aren't going to accept the growing pains of prospect Felix Pie in center, they'll have to fill that hole as well.

They also don't have an acceptable everyday shortstop on the roster; Ryan Theriot is a fan favorite, but he's an inadequate hitter and a mediocre fielder. They do seem ready to give Geovany Soto the bulk of the at-bats behind the plate, where his offense will be a nice surprise for a team that got zilch from the position before Labor Day last year.

Brewers
Milwaukee Brewers
The Brewers are probably set at every position on the diamond, with six starters including the often-injured Ben Sheets.

They don't have a stable option for the closer role, so they could convert a starter (such as Dave Bush, who closed in college at Wake Forest), or they might try to acquire another arm in a trade.

Cardinals
St. Louis Cardinals
It might be a stretch to call the Cardinals "contenders," but it's hard to count them out in the weak NL Central. At the very least, they'll need to add two starting pitchers; Chris Carpenter won't be back until midseason, so their Opening Day rotation comprises of Adam Wainwright, Joel Pineiro, Braden Looper and some question marks.

New GM John Mozeliak may be more willing to acknowledge second baseman Adam Kennedy (.219/.282/.290 in 2007) as a sunk cost, and it's a relatively easy spot to upgrade in this free agent market.

Reds
Cincinnati Reds
Like the Cardinals, the Reds are only contenders in the sense that their division is terrible, and they're a better team right now than they were at season's end. Unfortunately, they're about three starters shy of a quintet, and they're not likely to fill more than one of those spots from outside the organization, leaving them with two of Matt Belisle, Bobby Livingston, and young flamethrower Homer Bailey in the rotation.

Their bullpen lines up much better with Francisco Cordero in the ninth inning, but they're still going to see mediocre arms like Mike Stanton and Gary Majewski pitching important innings unless they sign another reliever or two.

The Reds are set at every offensive position and even have surpluses to try to trade for more pitching help.

Diamondbacks
Arizona Diamondbacks
The Diamondbacks are committed to their young hitters, so any moves they make will address their pitching staff.

They're short on starters even if Randy Johnson returns, although their bullpen runneth over with power arms. Brandon Webb, Micah Owings, Johnson and Doug Davis are a competent front four, but unless several of the Snakes' bats take steps forward, they'll need stronger starting pitching to stay in contention.

Rockies
Colorado Rockies
The Rockies are short a second baseman, with Kaz Matsui leaving for a laughable three-year deal with Houston and backup Jamey Carroll being dealt to Cleveland, but if Jason Hirsh is able to take the fifth starter's spot, they're otherwise fully booked.

Padres
San Diego Padres
With Mike Cameron very likely not to return, the Padres need a center fielder. Petco Park's center field is huge and none of the candidates to play in the outfield corners -- Scott Hairston, Brian Giles and perhaps Kevin Kouzmanoff -- is going to cover a lot of ground. If they re-sign Milton Bradley, they could have him in the outfield for the second half, but his recovery from a torn ACL will probably limit his range at least in the short term.

They'll also need a second baseman, and they only have four capable starters signed for their rotation in Jake Peavy, Chris Young, Greg Maddux and my perennial sleeper pick Randy Wolf. Justin Germano is the nominal fifth starter, but they're going to want to do better than him.

Dodgers
Los Angeles Dodgers
The Dodgers could start the year with the roster they have, and if they're willing to be patient with Andy LaRoche at third base, they'd have a strong club.

They could use an upgrade in the rotation over Esteban Loaiza and/or some Jason Schmidt insurance, and it would help if they moved Juan Pierre off the roster to ensure that he doesn't steal playing time from Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier, but they don't have any positions that are open without acceptable in-house options.

Red Sox
Boston Red Sox
The Red Sox have an embarrassment of riches -- players like Jacoby Ellsbury, Jed Lowrie and Brandon Moss, who would make the Opening Day rosters of many clubs, have no place to play with Boston this year barring the trade of an established starting player.

Yankees
New York Yankees
The Yankees have been linked to some starting pitchers who are on the trading block, but they currently have six starters if Joba Chamberlain is included on the list.

They also don't have a first baseman -- Jason Giambi shouldn't be allowed near a glove -- and they need to add two to three bullpen arms, at least one of whom is left-handed.

Blue Jays
Toronto Blue Jays
The Blue Jays' Opening Day lineup, rotation and bullpen are all in place without much room for maneuvering.

They could use an offensive upgrade at shortstop or behind the plate, but already they have players under contract for both positions.

Indians
Cleveland Indians
Cleveland returns almost the same roster it took within a game of the World Series last year. Their fifth starter spot has some borderline internal candidates, although Aaron Laffey could probably fill the role and put up an ERA around 5, and no one should give up on Cliff Lee's chance to return to his pre-2007 form.

They could use another corner outfielder, since both Franklin Gutierrez and Jason Michaels are more platoon players than everyday bats.

Tigers
Detroit Tigers
Detroit's offense is woefully underpowered -- just kidding. The Tigers' lineup is stacked, and if Jeremy Bonderman is healthy, their rotation is strong.

With Joel Zumaya's return uncertain and Fernando Rodney coming off a year where he had a few stints on the disabled list due to arm trouble, they could use some bulk innings to prop up their bullpen, especially if you agree with the argument that Dontrelle Willis' stuff isn't going to translate well to the American League.

Angels
Los Angeles Angels
The Angels could stand pat and probably still walk away with the AL West. They could use an impact bat with strong on-base skills, but the only possible opening for that type of player is third base, which is Chone Figgins' only place to play at the moment, since there appears to be no chance they'll bench likely DH Garret Anderson.

They don't have a left-handed reliever who's capable of getting a tough lefty out late in games, but Mike Scioscia has managed pretty well without one of those guys for years.

Mariners
Seattle Mariners
The Mariners aren't contenders as currently constructed, but they're about two good starting pitchers away from at least pushing themselves into the wild-card discussion.

Felix Hernandez is their No. 1 starter and continues to show flashes of turning into a bona fide ace, but their nominal No. 2 and No. 3 starters, Jarrod Washburn and Miguel Batista, belong in the No. 4 and No. 5 spots. Reducing their runs-allowed total (fifth-worst in the AL) is the key to pushing this team up towards 90 wins, and Seattle's bullpen is strong, so any improvement is going to have to come in the rotation, and none of the internal options is going to provide enough of a boost to get them there.

Keith Law, formerly the special assistant to the general manager for the Toronto Blue Jays, is the senior baseball analyst for Scouts Inc.









Keith Law- Some contenders have major holes to fill, others just minor
Quote:


http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove07/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=3146607

Yankees
New York Yankees
The Yankees have been linked to some starting pitchers who are on the trading block, but they currently have six starters if Joba Chamberlain is included on the list.

They also don't have a first baseman -- Jason Giambi shouldn't be allowed near a glove -- and they need to add two to three bullpen arms, at least one of whom is left-handed

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:52 pm

East Windup Breakdown: Fukumori Kazuo (福盛 和男)

http://eastwindupchronicle.com/?p=612


Fukumori Kazuo drew a few raised eyebrows when he announced he would challenge the major leagues and opt for free agency following the 2007 season. The past year was a frustrating one for Fukumori, as he suffered a season ending right (throwing) elbow in late July. The injury had troubled him for much of the year, making it difficult to put much stock in his 2007 numbers.

Problem is, this has been a pattern throughout Fukumori’s career. He’s always been a sought after talent, but has now undergone two major elbow injuries that both required surgery. Still, when he’s managed to stay healthy he’s been solid, often verging on excellence, which is why he’s now able to draw interest from major league clubs. He throws a good variety of pitches, including a shuuto (like a reverse slider), a slider and a knuckle curve, that he has decent control with. Most appealing is his fastball, which despite topping out in the low 90s, has a lot of movement and often tails in toward right-handed batters (as he illustrates in the video above).

Originally drafted by the Yokahama BayStars Fukumori was initially used as a middle reliever, but also started 10 games. He showed promise from the beginning, posting a 2.90 ERA and a 1.21 WHIP in 25 appearances.

In 1998, after starting three games, Fukumori suffered a dislocated elbow, and was thought to be shelved for the year. He did manage to come back late that year, as the BayStars ran the table. He threw 1 2/3 innings in that series and was an inspirational boost to the team.

He had a solid, but not spectacular 1999 season, going 9-9 with a 4.27 ERA in 30 games, including 18 starts. His control fluctuated, and his H/9 rate rocketed to 10.24. To help fill the void left by MLB-bound Sasaki Kazuhiro, Fukumori was switched into a bullpen-by-committee and ended up saving 10 games.
Yankees worried about the Redsox Fuku

It was in 2002 that Fukumori started to fulfill his promise and had a career year as the setup man for closer Saito Takashi. His hit rate fell and his K/9 rose to an astounding (for him) 8.69. Where did it come from? His ERA was under three (2.96) and his WHIP a repectable 1.23. At the time the BayStars were one of the worst teams in the league, and while Fukumori’s numbers weren’t horrible, (1-3, 4.50 ERA, 1.20 WHIP) the team finished dead last with a 45-94-1 record. It would be his last year with the team as he was traded to theOsaka Kintetsu Buffaloes. It wasn’t a good fit. He saved 10, but his K rate plummeted back to five and he gave up 53 hits in 48 2/3 innings.

In 2005 Fukumori was drafted by the expansion Rakuten Eagles and inserted as the team’s closer. He saved just 11, but the team only had 13 total. His K rate remained near five, but then…guess what…he was back up over eight the next year. 2006 would wind up being a very good year for Fukumori, as he saved 21 games and posted a 2.17 ERA in 50 games. As a result, Fukumori was elected to a All-Star game as a reserve and threw a scoreless inning there. He was also selected by Katsuya Nomura to play for the Japanese team in the annual Nichi-Bei Series, but the results were hardly promising. He was battered for a 19.31 ERA in 2 appearances. Fukumori had an up and down 2007, but struggled with elbow pain and debated sugery before finally going under the knife. He did manage 4 wins and 17 saves, his ERA did jump nearly 2.5 runs in 37 games.

Yankees worried about the Redsox 552601

He travelled to the U.S. in early November to have his elbow checked, and was given a clean bill of health. Fukumori will be represented by agent, Alan Nero, who represents Taguchi So, Johjima Kenji, and Iwamura Akinori. Indeed Tampa has shown the most interest in Fukumori and likely look to sign him to a fairly low risk minor league deal. However, the Royals and Trey Hillman have recently entered the fray, which could make the bidding more competitive.

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:52 pm


Mizuno News
Phillipines baseball backed by Mizuno



Quote:


http://www.fitnessfootwear.com/news/2007/10/phillipines-baseball-backed-by-mizuno-18310970.aspx


Island nation the Philippines is going baseball crazy as the Baseball Phillipines Series Two took off at the Rizal Memorial ballpark.

Marikina City were early big hitters, seeing off the favoured Manila team 11-5, while defending champion Makati also scored a victory.

The tournament differs from the American blueprint for a world series, with the home of baseball hosting a playoff series of games between the two victorious sides in either of the US leagues at the end of the season.

The Baseball Phillipines Series is organised into a double-round format, with six teams playing at least 10 games each.

Sponsors for the tournament's second year offer a wealth of experience – Mizuno Sports brings its understanding of sporting apparel and footwear to the Phillipines series, alongside Gatorade, TJ Hotdogs and others.

Playing baseball is already a favourite sporting hobby in several countries outside the USA, with Japan, Cuba, Venezuela and Puerto Rico leading the ranks of new enthusiasts that the Phillipines is now looking to join.

Aside from supporting great sporting events, Mizuno provides a range of footwear for different conditions and requirements, with many of its models available here at Fitness Footwear.ADNFCR-1002-ID-18310970-ADNFCR

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:53 pm

C - Ivan Rodriguez

1B - Carlos Guillen

2B - Placido Polanco

3B- Miguel Cabrera

SS - Edgar Renteria

LF - Marcus Thames

CF - Curtis Granderson

RF - Magglio Ordonez

DH - Gary Sheffield



SP1 - Justin Verlander

SP2 - Jeremy Bonderman

SP3 - Dontrelle Willis

SP4 - Kenny Rogers

SP5 - Nate Robertson

CL- Todd Jones



John Danks, say hello to the Tigers starting lineup. That's $130 million dollars well spent right there.

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:54 pm

Rays sign Cliff Floyd
Quote:


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3152188

Rays Lineup

Iwamura
Crawford
Upton
Pena
Baldelli
Floyd
Longoria
Navarro
Bartlett
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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2007 09:19 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sources: Floyd, Rays could have deal in place by weekend


Quote:


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3152188


By Jerry Crasnick
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: December 12, 2007, 3:49 PM ET


The Tampa Bay Rays are in serious discussions with free-agent outfielder Cliff Floyd and could have an agreement in place by the weekend, baseball sources told ESPN.com.

The Rays have been looking for a bat in right field since sending Delmon Young to Minnesota two weeks ago in a multiplayer trade that brought pitcher Matt Garza to Tampa.

Floyd, 35, is a .279 hitter with 222 career home runs in 15 seasons with Montreal, Florida, Boston, the New York Mets and Chicago Cubs. Last year he hit .284 with nine homers in 108 games for the Cubs.

Floyd has had numerous injury problems, and the agreement won't be complete until he passes a physical. But a source said that's not expected to hold up the deal.

The Rays expect Floyd to log at-bats at designated hitter against right-handed pitching and share time in right field with Jonny Gomes in 2008. Rocco Baldelli could also be in the mix if he's healthy.

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2007 09:21 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The Rays could actually finish third in the division this year...
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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Johnson: Cashman Recent Transaction Patterns = Success
Quote:

http://waswatching.com/


Matt Johnson (aka mehmattski)
http://mehmattski.blogspot.com/

has decided to pitch in on the Cashman Appreciation Project. What follows below is Matt's own words. Thanks to Matt for sharing this content with WasWatching.com!

Success for a baseball general manager should not be defined by creating a scorecard of all positive and negative deals, signings, and drafts; it should be measured on the basis of creating and executing a plan that builds a sustainable, winning franchise. Individual transactions should not be judged by their results but by their context- what was the players' value at the time of the transaction? What other teams were interested? What were the Yankees other options at that time? Most of all, the question should be: did a particular transaction match the specific needs and overall plan of the organization? It should be argued that the worst transactions of all are the ones made simply for the sake of making transactions, and have no bearing on the overall scheme of the franchise. There are a few ways, then, to analyze the contributions of Brian Cashman to the New York Yankees. One way would be to look at transaction patterns relative to his peers; this would be a worthy, if lengthy exercise, but important because as stats like RSAA and OPS+ have told us, relative success is just as important as absolute success.

However, the following is an exploration of the greater pattern behind Brian Cashman's actions at the helm of the New York Yankees since Cashman signed his new contract in the 2005 off-season. With this contract, Cashman was given a promise that the team would be more in his control, insinuating that deals prior to 2005 did not have the support of the full front office. The 2005 season represents a turning point in the Yankees' "success," ending a period where they were one out away from winning their third pennant in four years, and beginning a period with multiple first-round playoff losses, but also a period with a distinct change in strategy. This change can be summed up with one annual event, previously ignored by the Yankees: the June Amateur Player Draft.

As noted here on August 30, 2007, Cashman decided to let Damon Oppenheimer have control over draft selections beginning in 2006. Still, Cashman attended the 2006 draft (and chose it over watching a Yankees-Red Sox game). Either way, both Cashman and Oppenheimer were clearly involved in previous drafts, which have so far yielded fairly good results: from 2005, JB Cox, Zach Kroenke, Brett Gardner, Austin Jackson, Garrett Patterson, and Alan Horne were all selected in the first dozen rounds. The year before, the Yankees had used compensation picks on Phil Hughes and Jeff Marquez but otherwise had a fairly boring draft. In each of those years the Yankees did have a first round pick, but not the one originally assigned to them; in 2004 it was compensation for Jon Leiber, who despite not pitching at all in 2003 was granted Type A status; in 2005, only the surprise defection of Andy Pettitte granted the Yankees a first round pick, while the Yankees' pick went to the Marlins for Carl Pavano. Before 2004, the Yankees' farm system was woefully barren, most trade talks stalled as a result, and the efforts of 2005 were only beginning to help.

The 2006 Amateur draft was different; while the Yankees gave up their own pick to Boston in exchange for Johnny Damon, their compensation pick was likely one of design- Tom Gordon was not re-signed, and the Yankees received the #21 overall pick and a supplemental round pick. With these two selections came Ian Kennedy and Joba Chamberlain. The rest of the draft is a cast of prospects familiar because of their discussion in trade talks: Zach McAllister, Dellin Betances, Mitch Hilligoss, and Dan McCutchen. One thing that has become a clear pattern for the Yankees is a willingness to dedicate their substantial wealth to signing prospects above-slot and prying them away from college commitments. This is easily seen in the 2007 draft, with the selection and subsequent signing bonuses for Andrew Brackman, Austin Romine, Brad Suttle, and Carmen Angellini.

This pattern of rededicating efforts towards building the franchise from within began in 2004 and has crystallized for the Yankees in 2007. What has to remain abundantly clear is the dedication to the plan not just from Oppenheimer, but also from Cashman. It would not be possible for the Yankees to be so successful in drafting players recently had Cashman grabbed every free agent player he could find, regardless of their draft-pick penalty. Multiple times this offseason, Cashman has mentioned draft picks and has been wary of free agents with the penalty attached-- the Luis Vizcaino/LaTroy Hawkins swap seems proof that the supplemental pick in 2008 is important to Cashman. The dedication to youth can be seen in other avenues as well- the flurry of trades engineered by Cashman in the 2006 off-season brought the Yankees even more youthful depth with Ross Ohlendorf, Steven Jackson, Chris Britton, Alberto Gonzales, Keven Whelan, and, eventually, Humberto Sanchez.

Finally, and most effectively, the Yankees have been major players with international signings, with the resources not only to outbid but also to out-scout other teams in Latin America. This is, of course, not a recent development, and has resulted in Jorge Posada, Bernie Williams, Mariano Rivera, Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera; and in the minors there are Jose Tabata, Jesus Montero, and Marcos Vechionacci. The Yankees, in 2007, announced that they will be the first to heavily recruit players from China- while the first prospects may not amount to much, it represents outside-the-box thinking and a dedication to the Far East which has netted clear winners like Chien-Ming Wang and Hideki Matsui.

In the last few weeks, we've seen the battle within the Yankees organization rear its ugly head once again, represented in microcosm by debate on the Johan Santana trade. On one hand is the obsession with winning, every year, at all costs; on the other, a commitment to improving the long-term success of the franchise. Phil Hughes, for whatever his strength and weaknesses, represents this commitment and a hopeful look forward to a day when the Yankees are a team built from within. The reluctance to trade Hughes, even for the best pitcher in baseball during the middle of his prime, is symbolic of a pattern that has taken over the entire Yankees front office over the past few years. While both credit and blame should be levied carefully, in the end it is the responsibility of the general manager to decide whether to take the advice of Damon Oppenheimer or Randy Levine.

The conclusion that should be drawn from the above evidence is that a commitment to rebuilding the farm system has to be engineered through all levels of the front office: there have to be very few high-impact free agent signings to keep draft picks; those draft picks have to be well scouted; and the Yankees are willing leverage their resources to pay high signing bonuses to draft picks and international players. No one person is responsible for keeping all of those plans in working order, but one man is in charge of organizing the efforts of those responsible for amateur drafts, international scouting, and personnel decisions: Brian Cashman. So while others would be content to debate the fine details of every transaction the Yankees have made in the last ten years, a better judge of Cashman's influence over the Yankees' organization is elucidated from his recent transaction patterns. The point is to make the team younger, more talented, and sustainable for longer than with the previous strategy of signing aging veterans. For this dedication, Brian Cashman's latest contract (since October 2005) has to be judged as a success.

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:55 pm

Very nice job, Matt. I like the way that you kept the essay focused on the post-2005 Yankees and, within that, their new found focus on the amateur draft.

Why it took the Yankees so long to realize that the June draft was important is a mystery to me. All I can guess it that Steinbrenner's impatience and free-spending on the major league level led the Yankees to behave in a "penny-wise, pound-foolish" manner.

Arguably, this is the first time since the draft was instituted in 1965 that the Yankees have treated it as important; that is indeed a hopeful sign for the future.

Posted by: jonm [TypeKey Profile Page] at December 12, 2007 05:08 PM

Thanks for taking the time out to write this... It isn't as easy as Steve makes it look, eh? Smile

Posted by: Raf [TypeKey Profile Page] at December 12, 2007 05:09 PM

Good stuff Matt.

Just one thing...when you say "What other teams were interested?" in the first paragraph, I have to quarrel with that methodology. As in the case of Carl Pavano, people often say "but Boston and Seattle both wanted him too." I don't see how this is relevant. The Yanks should've seen him for what he was and the presence of other suitors only means that "the masses are asses" as the saying goes.

Otherwise, I'm on board with your essay and agree with you.

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:56 pm

[quote]Wang deserves a better review



Quote:

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/12/12/wang-deserves-a-better-review/

It’s interesting how 5.2 innings against Cleveland in October turned Chien-Ming Wang into a bum in the eyes of some.

Andy Pettitte went to bat for the Wanger today. But many comments and e-mail disagreed. One guy wrote to tell me that “Wang had a terrible second half.” Well, he was 10-3, 4.07 after the break, 3-1, 3.27 in September.

Another e-mailer (presumably somebody taking a break from their afternoon six-pack in Boston), wrote to say how Beckett “is twice as good as Wang.” Beckett was 20-7, 3.27; Wang was 19-7, 3.70. That’s twice as good?

Is Beckett better than Wang? He was in 2007. He wasn’t in 2006. Wang will be entering only his third full season in the majors in 2008 and for the first time will be using more than two pitches on a regular basis. Can we wait a bit before deciding what he is or isn’t?

Wang, I think, is a victim of himself. He’s quiet, unemotional and rarely does televised interviews because he speaks English as a second language. He also isn’t a strikeout pitcher.

If Wang threw more four-seam fastballs, struck out a few more scrubs and pumped his fist once in a while, I suspect people would like him more. It’s kind of silly.


1. DVB December 12th, 2007 at 5:07 pm

agreed
2. Drew December 12th, 2007 at 5:07 pm

The Wanger rules. I’m sick of people abusing him because of the playoffs. Crap happens. The guy wins games. That’s the only thing that matters. I could care less if he strikes ‘em out, gets ground out, or gets them on fly outs. He knows how to pitch.
3. EY December 12th, 2007 at 5:09 pm

Great post Pete.
Lots of posters and commenters are too busy throwing Wang under the bus to remember that Beckett was nowhere near Wang’s level in 2006, and in 2006 Wang was the only pitcher to win a playoff game for us. “THIS TEAM NEEDS A TRUE ACE! OMFG SANTANA NOW !!!11111″

Ya right.

I’ll still take Wang over Beckett. I don’t want any fist pumping or F-bombs on national TV either.
4. ck December 12th, 2007 at 5:10 pm

Again, Peter, well put. The guy goes about his business, takes responsibility when warranted, and doesn’t whine to anyone.
5. Big Rye December 12th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

Bing, Pow, Bam, right in the kisser. Good Job Pete. Couldn’t agree more.
6. Cole December 12th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

Wang is awesome. I’d like the Yankees to give their ace for the past 2 years some credit.
7. mel December 12th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

Maybe if he called people vulgar names and dropped f-bombs in interviews.

I love Wanger just the way he is. Winningest pitcher in the last 2 seasons. That’s not luck.
8. Klem December 12th, 2007 at 5:13 pm

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:56 pm

Amen Pete! Well said.
9. sammy December 12th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

I would agree. Wang’s repertoire might not constitute him as an ace, but he has the tools to be a front-line pitcher. He’s young, and a groundout pitcher. When pitchers like Beckett fall off the power wagon, what do they turn to? Finesse, and working counts. Wang does that now, and seems poised to get better as he goes along.

I’ll take Wang with Joba and the potential of Hughes and Kennedy over what Beckett gave last year.
10. susan mullen December 12th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

I didn’t want to bring this up during the season. But I read enough here earlier about the bad nail Wang had, that it forced him to modify his pitching style, etc. That it was the kind of thing that wouldn’t have a chance to heal during the season. I haven’t heard this mentioned in awhile.
11. mko December 12th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

Wang is great. He’s just an awesome pitcher. If I remember correctly he pitched great in the 2006 postseason. One bad postseason (one of the starts was on short rest for the first time in his career?) can’t change that.

However, I want to state my opinion: Just looking at the pitches he threw and the control he had; I think he was better in 2006. He had better control at the low end of the strike zone and the corners. He didn’t pitch up in the zone.
This year I didn’t like the pitches he threw that much. But I think that’s in his mindset, maybe Dave Eiland or Joe Girardi can do something about that.

Wang is awesome! And I really like his attitude as well.
12. Al December 12th, 2007 at 5:15 pm

Well said.
13. EY December 12th, 2007 at 5:18 pm

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:56 pm

Agreed mko. Hopefully Eiland can fix something Gator couldn’t fix.

Wanger has the stuff to be dominating (like against Mets in June, or against Blue Jays / Devil Rays in 2006, or against Tigers in 2006 ALDS), he just needs to keep doing that consistently.
14. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2007 at 5:19 pm

Finally, a writer that gets it. Not often you see a 94-95 MPH sinker
15. SAndMan December 12th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

Yes Wang is good….good not ace.SAntana,Beckett,Holiday Aces.It’s also not just about this post-season.Every postseason game he has gotten a little worse.He did as bad a job as Javier Vaquez did as game 7 of the ALCS in giving up a Grand Slam and three run homrun.

He did what Tom Glavine did last year going 0-3 in his last three starts killing the Mets to the post season.

You give him a pass but no ace for Wang just good.Also did Peter say Wang got a few more Strikeouts this year.To bad he got a few more hits too.

Also Peter do something worthwhile and leak out some Mitchell Report names except trying to think WAng is a Ace.
16. CB December 12th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

Wang was a relatively unheralded pitcher who came up at the age of 25.

He wasn’t a top prospect and not much was expected of him.

Now the focus of so many people, ironically, isn’t on how surprisingly good he is - but rather on what he isn’t.

To criticize him for not being Johan Santana or Josh Becket or Roy Halliday 2007 doesn’t mean a whole lot.

Jake Peavy didn’t come up real big in 2007 when the padres needed him. Is he an ace? Neither did CC Sabathia. Is he an ace? And if they aren’t true aces how many of them are their in baseball?

Wang’s a second year pitcher. Not many pitchers in year two of their careers are on the Johan Santana level. But then, not many pitchers at all ever come close to that level.

That’s the level that Wang is constantly compared to - Santana. Ok so he’s not on that level. That’s a level of expectation that’s not realistic for a second year player.

You can’t blame Wang for the fact that the Yankees have major holes in the staff every season he’s been in the majors.

Where would they be without him?
17. Paolo December 12th, 2007 at 5:22 pm

Can’t agree with you more, Pete. Wanger can only get better from this point on and 2007 was just his 2nd full year in the MLB - he got ONLY two 19 wins in a row…

Can’t wait to see Wanger and Andy come back next year and kick some butts!!! Go Yanks!
18. ryanloghry December 12th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

I dunno, I like Wang because he just goes out and does his job, quietly and very well. He doesn’t pump his fists, or dance around when he strikes someone out. It’s a good thing.
19. Paolo December 12th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

CB - You totally hit the points!!!
20. kasey December 12th, 2007 at 5:27 pm

if he’d pitched worth a damn in october, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

you make a lot of valid points, pete, but wang got his lunch handed to him twice over the course of a short series. that’s also not a coincidence.
21. JT from NYC December 12th, 2007 at 5:27 pm

Wanger is great, i dont understand how so many people can undervalue him. Pete makes a good point… Beckett sucked ass in 2006. Wang is still only in his third year! So many damn irrational Yankee fans, it sickening.
22. CB December 12th, 2007 at 5:29 pm

“Yes Wang is good….good not ace.SAntana,Beckett,Holiday Aces.”

This statement is a complete fallacy - not because Wang is not as good as Santana but because if you hold up Santana as a true ace no other pitcher in baseball is on that level.

Roy Halliday is frequently brought up as a true ace. He has great, great stuff. But go look up his number, particularly for the past two years.

Tell me how Halliday’s numbers make him an “ace.”

Same thing for Beckett - he’s been great in the post season - that’s very true. But there is no way you can say that Beckett is on the same level as Santana. None.

Beckett had his best year last year. Santana’s worst year of the past 5 was arguably better than the best year Beckett ever had.

People keep throwing out this word “ace” and lumping bringing up all of these other names and saying Wang doesn’t belong there.

The bigger issue is that no one belongs on the same level as Santana.

If Santana is your standard for a true ace then there has been only one true ace in baseball for the past 4 years.
23. Paolo December 12th, 2007 at 5:29 pm

I say we drop the useless discussion about “if Wang is an ace?” He is an ace, so what? He is not an ace, so what? What is the definition of ACE, anyway? Can anyone tells me who was the ace for the Yankees in 2007 and why?
24. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2007 at 5:31 pm

Ace is a BS label that get misused and overused to often…like “clutch”. and “unclutch”. It’s used by people that can’t talk in anything but cliches.
25. G. Love December 12th, 2007 at 5:33 pm

I’m admittedly one of the people who are very down on Wang. I would put him in a Johan trade in a heartbeat.

His playoff performance this year in the ALDS is one of the all time worst.

Do I think he’s worthless and a bum? No.

But the guy didn’t calm, cool and collected against Cleveland. He looked terrified.

If he was ailing from some injury and didn’t report it, then he shouldn’t have started game 4.

Mel Stottlemeyer said in an interview after the playoffs that Wang’s ball wasn’t sinking, it’s was moving side to side which is why he was so hittable against Cleveland.

If Mel saw that on TV, I have to believe that the Yankees saw it as well. Wang couldn’t make the adjustment he needed and he let the team, that worked it’s butt off to get back into the race, down 2 times in 4 games.

Is some of that on Torre? I guess, but more of it is on Wang who went out in the playoffs and either hid an injury or forgot how to use his delivery to make the ball sink.

Do that one game in the playoffs, fine. Come out and do that twice, you have to prove yourself as a playoff performer all over again.

I don’t think there is anyone here who if asked the question who on the Yankees staff they would want to start a one game playoff would pick Wang.

If they said they would, they would be lying.

He has to bounce back in a big way this season and if the Yankees make it to the playoffs, he has to pitch a solid game to get this stink off of him.

I have just as much right to be disappointed in the guy as anyone else has to defend him even though he was awful in the most recent post season.
26. Steve December 12th, 2007 at 5:33 pm

Wang is the ace and he is amazing. I love him because he is quiet and doesn’t pump his fist everytime an out is recorded. He is calm and confident, everything a pitcher needs to be.
27. Dave December 12th, 2007 at 5:33 pm

I think ppl arguing for the yanks to get santana or that they need an ace is not the same argument that wang is no good or not nearly as good as beckett. I think we should get an ace in santana because we dont have a proven lights out pitcher with filthy stuff. I think wang had a horrible post-season and I dont think wang is a true ace because he cant get a strikeout when we need one and he lets up as many hits as innings pitched which is usually not what lights out pitchers do. But he is certainly a great pitcher and deserves alot of credit and respect. However, that doesnt remove the fact that he isnt automatic and he wins many games due to solid run support. If andy had the run support wang had last yr, andy would have had 18 to 19 wins and wang would have had 15. But you cant argue with his era, walks/9, homeruns/9 and the whip is okay as well.
28. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2007 at 5:34 pm

Kasey, how did Sabathia do over the course of the post season. He was overly spectacular. Peavey, Webb?
29. Frank Discussion December 12th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

Nothing but respect here for Wang, the guy clearly knows how to pitch and I’m really curious to see how he performs with the new coaching staff. Wang isn’t a strikeout pitcher, so perhaps he doesn’t fit the cliched definition of an “ace” but IMO he is a valuable asset to the team. How easily his 7 inning shutdown of Boston on August 30th are forgotten.

Granted his performance in the postseason this year was poor, to say the least. The various factors that contributed to that have already been discussed on this forum, no need to rehash it again.
30. CB December 12th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

Kasey,

In all of baseball who is a “true ace?”

I’m not saying Wang is one - but if he’s constantly being defined by what he is not, then I’d like to know who is a true ace besides Santana?

Halliday? He gets hurt all the time. And has had two really great year. Chris Carpenter - same - hurt all the time. Peavy - always awful in big spots and cost his team a playoff birth this year as the padres folded. Sabathia? Awful in the playoffs.

Who besides Santana and perhaps Beckett is an ace?
31. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2007 at 5:44 pm

G.Love, here’s a comparison if you’re old enough to remember the WS in 1968. Mickey ?Lolich won 17 games during the season, was a complete shutdown pitcher winning 3 games in the series. Denny McLain had one of the greatest seasons ever for a pitcher, winning 31 games and was completely blown out of the water in his first 2 starts. It happens in a short series. The top pitcher gets hammered and somebody else is the hero. Lou Burdette, Johnny Podres weren’t even the second best pitchers on their teams ans were series heroes. Larson and Ford…who’s the most logical guy to throw a perfect game, let alone in the series.
32. Peter Abraham December 12th, 2007 at 5:45 pm

Kasey:

Funny thing about pitching in the postseason: you have to get there first. Wang doesn’t do what he did, the Yankees were playing golf on Oct. 2.
33. FlipFloppers December 12th, 2007 at 5:49 pm

All they needed was a post from Pete to change there minds, amazing…
34. KG86 December 12th, 2007 at 5:53 pm

If you judge ace status on post-season performance, how can any of you who are saying Wang isn’t an ace say that Sabathia is an ace?

The truth is Wang is the best starter we have, and one of the best pitchers in baseball. In fact he is the winningest pitcher in baseball over the last 2 seasons. So yes, he is an ace.
35. Norm December 12th, 2007 at 5:55 pm

Bingo. Give the kid a break and let’s hope he has lots of postseasons to prove his doubters wrong. He’s got a bright future and the present isn’t looking half bad either.
36. Khoa December 12th, 2007 at 5:55 pm

Frankly, I think saying little to the press is a lot better than dropping expletives to the media during the playoffs (see Cleveland series 2007).
37. kasey December 12th, 2007 at 6:04 pm

all -

i’m not comparing wang to sabathia, peavy, etc. i’m saying that, while pete’s points were all valid, it’s not an accident that the guy got smacked around the yard twice over the course of five days. he’s a good pitcher, but raise you’re hand if you feel completely comfortable handing him the ball in game one of a playoff series.

pete -

excellent point. same could be said for a-rod.
38. Midge It December 12th, 2007 at 6:04 pm

“Peavy - always awful in big spots and cost his team a playoff birth this year as the padres folded. Sabathia? Awful in the playoffs.”

What are you judging Peavy off of, like 3 “big spot” games? And how exactly did he cost them a playoff birth this year? The only reason they were in position to be in a tiebreaker game is because he was by far the best pitcher in the NL this year. He won the Triple Crown! How is that not an ace?? What idiocy. If you want to make a case against Peavy, maybe you should start with his 2006 campaign with a 99 ERA+. Not a couple of “big spot” games.

You need to stop judging people on small sample sizes. If you want to criticize Sabathia, don’t look at 3 crappy postseason starts. Look at how he was nothing close to an ace in the 2001 - 2005 seasons. His last 2 seasons have been awesome. 3 postseasons starts are not the reason to doubt his status as an elite pitcher in today’s game. And you touched on the only negative with halladay - his health. But saying that he has only had 2 great seasons is wrong. The guy is alwasy awesome - when he is healthy. His WHIP has been under 1.20 for 6 of the last 7 seasons and he has posted 5 seasons with an ERA+ over 140 in that time. That is an ace.

Here a starter list for current aces - Santana, Webb, Smoltz, Halladay, Beckett, Sabathia. And there are several guys that are approaching that level and might be there with just another good season or two - Zambrano, Carpenter, Bedard, Kazmir, Verlander, and Sheets. And if you want to go more extreme and go for guys that could be aces right away then that list includes Hamels and Liriano.

I’d put a pitcher like Wang or Buehrle in that next tier of pitchers, which is still pretty good. And Wang has yet to suffer the injuries that have plagued the Sheets or Halladays, so that’s a good sign. But he’s only played 2 years so maybe he will start to get those injuries - we don’t know yet. I’d take any of the listed pitchers above right now in a straight-up trade for Wang, with maybe the exception of Sheets since he is always injured and his strikeout rate rapidly dropped off this year when he was healthy. Wang is pretty good but there are plenty of starters who are better than him and have better potential to be dominant aces within a couple of years.
39. Eddie Layton December 12th, 2007 at 6:04 pm

Me like-y Wang. Me love him long time.
40. Mr. Vegas December 12th, 2007 at 6:05 pm

I’m a big fan of CMW and a one who is firmly in the playoffs-are-just-a-crapshoot camp. That said, even I have trouble generating any positive feelings about Wang right now. The problem isn’t that he didn’t pitch like an “ace” in October. It’s that he was given two playoff starts in a short series and absolutely handed those games away. Moreover, there was no earthly reason for him to go out there and stink up the joint the way he did, at least that anyone could have foreseen prior to the playoffs (e.g., an injury). I don’t think it overstates the case to say that his performance just completely pulled the rug out from under the team and its fans.

For the record, I haven’t given up on the Wangster by any means. I hope and expect he will have another good season in 2008. But if that season ends the same way this season did, I would expect no just some but MOST Wang fans to jump ship.
41. no.27 December 12th, 2007 at 6:05 pm

Great Blog.

Wang has kind of become the scapegoat of the season, and it’s not right. Like you said, this was his 2nd full season pitching in the MLB, and he’s got 19 wins in each season. He can CLEARLY handle the pressure of pitching in NY, and it would be crazy for the Yankees to do anything other than sign him to a long term contract. He consistantly pitches late into games, something none of our other pitchers can seem to do, and gives the bullpen a rest.

If you take out the back to back games against the Jays and the Orioles when he clearly wasn’t right, Wang finishes the season with a 3.28 ERA. Also, in 5 games against Boston, he gave up more than 3 runs twice, more than 4 runs once.
42. Mike S. December 12th, 2007 at 6:05 pm

2 full years, 19 wins in each of them. The last Yankee pitcher to win 19 or more in consecutive years was Tommy John in 1979-1980. Wang had two bad games in the postseason. Other than that he did something not done by a Yankee pitcher in over a quarter century.
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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:57 pm

Non-tender bargains to explore

Potential Non-Tenders according to MLB traderumors:

QUOTE
Ben Broussard
Emil Brown
Brian Bruney
Kiko Calero
Neal Cotts
Joe Crede
Brendan Donnelly
Morgan Ensberg
Johnny Estrada
Mark Hendrickson
Reed Johnson
Jason Lane
Felipe Lopez
Kevin Mench
Miguel Olivo
Scott Podsednik
Mark Prior
Horacio Ramirez
Juan Rincon
Jae Seo
Cory Sullivan
Josh Towers
Claudio Vargas
Matt Wise
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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Giants close door on Rios deal


http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071212.wspt-rios1212/GSStory/GlobeSportsBaseball/home

Quote:

Giants general manager Brian Sabean said Wednesday that the signing of free-agent Aaron Roward effectively ended his search for an outfield bat that had seen the Giants and the Toronto Blue Jays discuss a trade that would have seen two-time All-Star Rios join the Giants in return for Tim Lincecum, a hard-throwing right-handed starter who rocketed through the Major Leagues in his 2007 rookie season.

"We this move, we're not interested - definitively - in listening to any offers for (Matt) Cain or (Tim) Lincecum," Sabean said, after Rowand agreed to a five-year contract. "We're looking for help at third base, some support at first base and some help in the bullpen."

Giants manager Bruce Bochy said on a conference call that Roward would bat fifth and play in centre field, with Dave Roberts in left field and Randy Winn in right. "I think our outfield is pretty well set," he said, "although we'll keep an open mind about some of the younger guys like (Freddy) Lewis, (Nate) Schierholtz and (Rajai) Davis."

Added Sabean: "This allows us to do some other business without busting up our pitching."

Matsui to Giants = dead?

il

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:57 pm

40-man roster is full but you have to cut three., Who are you going to drop? (long)

As it stands, the 40-man roster is very inflexible (it appears at the end of this note). It is this way partially because of all the young pitching talent the Yankees wanted to protect from the Rule V draft.

So, just to add Rivera, Alex and LaTroy, you have to cut three people. Who would you cut?

Let's work our way up from the bottom.





Designated Hitters
The Yankees are using (wasting?) a roster spot on Giambi. With three spots we need to clear, a roster spot is very, very valuable right now. The Yankees sure won't swallow his contract and cut him, but I would. I've seen enough of him in his time in pinstripes to be comfortable moving on without him.

Outfielders
For obvious reasons, you keep Abreu, Cabrera, Damon and Matsui. But with Giambi gone, you can have four OF for three positions because one of them is going to DH (not full-time), the other three will play the field. I know already that Melky is my every day CF and further know that when I sit him down for any extended period of time, his bat disappears. Melky isn't a bench player, he needs to play every day. I've reclassified Shelley Duncan below.

Infielders
Cano and Jeter are no-brainers. You can't drop Gonzalez or Miranda without passing them through waivers and I'm not sure the Yankees would want to do that. With Giambi gone, someone has to play first. That's going to be Shelley Duncan, platooning with Wilson Betemit.

Catchers
Posada and Molina stay, of course, and you must keep Cervelli on the roster in the unfortunate event Posada or Molina gets injured.

Only pitchers are left and we've only cleared one spot. You could argue that Betemit could go if you want Shelley Duncan to be your full-time first baseman, but then who's going to be your utility guy? If you're going to sign someone else then you need to clear a FOURTH roster spot. Have I mentioned that we've only cleared one roster spot so far? Let's keep going.

Pitchers
Let's assume the new additions to the 40-man roster are the people the Yankees wanted to protect from the Rule V draft and will stay on the roster because the Yankees wouldn't want to expose them to waivers. Although I need to research outrighting someone to the minors and whether or not that person needs to clear waivers to be removed from the 40-man roster.

But for now, let's say Beam, Brackman, Marquez, Patterson and White will remain on the 40-man. Similarly, we just traded for Albaladejo, so he's staying also.

Obvious keepers are Chamberlain, Farnsworth, Hughes, Kennedy, Mussina, Ohlendorf, Pettitte and Wang

Likely keepers are Britton, Igawa, Ramirez, Sanchez, Veras

That leaves the following:
Bruney, DeSalvo, Henn, Karstens, Pavano, Rasner, Wright

Pavano, whether he capitulates to take the minor league deal or not, is likely gone. After his agent waffled on the request to take a minor league deal, I would have cut him ten microseconds later. For all the Yankees have handed him these last three years, the very least he could do is help the team out in this manner.

You need to cut one more.

I'd say sayonara to DeSalvo. With all the starting depth on the roster he's not going to see the light of day, even if he can fix what went wrong the last time around.

...but now there's that pesky problem of not having a true utility guy or not having an every-day first baseman (rather than the Duncan/Betemit platoon), so perhaps the Yankees may need to clear even more roster space.

There's also the gaping hole in my reasoning that the Yankees aren't going to cut Giambi, so they're likely going to have to cut another pitcher.

Who else might you cut or trade if you were Gm of the Yankees? I would say Desalvo,Rasner, Karstens .

Pitchers
35 Mike Mussina
60 Ross Ohlendorf
-- Scott Patterson
45 Carl Pavano
46 Andy Pettitte
31 Edwar Ramirez
27 Darrell Rasner
77 Humberto Sanchez
41 Jose Veras
40 Chien-Ming Wang
-- Steven White
38 Chase Wright

Catchers
-- Francisco Cervelli
26 Jose Molina
20 Jorge Posada

Infielders
14 Wilson Betemit
24 Robinson Cano
63 Alberto Gonzalez
2 Derek Jeter
72 Juan Miranda

Outfielders
53 Bobby Abreu
28 Melky Cabrera
18 Johnny Damon
17 Shelley Duncan
55 Hideki Matsui

Designated Hitters
25 Jason Giambi

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:58 pm

Mr. Abraham, I'm sure part of the appeal of Hawkins to the Yankees is that he didn't qualify as a Type A or B free agent.
That's why they steered clear of Vizcaino. There was an article from Hardball Times piece about the Yanks' offseason - the limitations on Type A/B FA signings impact their decision-making.
Posada/Rodriguez/Rivera/Petitte - that's four, and they can only sign one more. (Because Vizcaino was a type B too, the Yanks had five Type A/B FA's total...and they're allowed to sign as many as they had).
They don't want to waste that last type A/B free agent splurge on Vizcaino.




Omar Continues To Bitch and Moan!



http://www.amny.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spken095493657dec09,0,3405638.column



It's clear, from what has transpired this offseason, that the Mets need a deeper, more talented farm system if they want to trade for the likes of Johan Santana, Dan Haren and Erik Bedard.

You can revamp an organization pretty quickly nowadays by capitalizing on the very imperfect amateur draft. That's what the Yankees have done. It's precisely what the Mets have not done.

But Omar Minaya sounds as if he wants to change his drafting methodology. "In the past, we have really been very good citizens," the Mets' general manager said this past week at the winter meetings in Nashville. "We've operated under the slotting system. But I think we have to continue to evaluate each individual case.

"It's tough when you are operating [by the slots] and not everybody operates by the slotting system. Each individual draft, we'll have to look at it."

Major League Baseball establishes "slots" for the early rounds of the draft, and it begs teams to adhere to those signing-bonus ceilings. The Yankees are among many clubs that treat those recommendations with stifled laughter, routinely paying above slot. That's how the Yankees have restocked their minor leagues, with director of scouting Damon Oppenheimer choosing the right players to reward. The Mets, to the contrary, have an excellent relationship with the commissioner's office, and they haven't paid over slot since drafting Mike Pelfrey in 2005. They haven't had a first-round pick the past two years, the result of signing Type A free agents Billy Wagner and Moises Alou, but they haven't utilized their considerable financial might to take some risks in the later rounds, either.

When the subject of the Yankees' draft approach came up, Minaya nodded. "By doing that, they've been able to get Joba Chamberlain and [Ian] Kennedy and those kinds of guys," he said. "We would always like to be good citizens, but we have to see. If we're the only club, if we're one of only two or three teams, then we have to evaluate it."

Minaya first expressed these sentiments in Baseball America.


Chamberlain + Kennedy cost less than either Humber or Pelfrey

We are good citizens ehhh...

Pelfrey 3.5M + Humber 3.7M + Mulvey 600K + Martinez 1.4M + Milledge 2M + Gomez 800K = 12M

Hughes 1.4M + Chamberlain 1.1M + Kennedy 2.25M + Horne 400K + Tabata 500K + Jackson 800K = 6.45M

Better talent for 1/2 the money... How about we completely SUCK!

For the first time since being GM, Omar is taking MAJOR hits from ownership, the media & the fans because his system clearly stinks to EVERYBODY and he can't get a frontline pitcher, while the Yankees owner & GM are talking about their bright future and could get any frontline pitcher on the market if they wanted to.

I wonder how this happened hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Alou, Beltran, Wagner & Pedro = Say goodbye to draft picks
Trades for Loduca & Delgado = Say goodbye to farm system depth

Myers, Farnsworth, Sheffield, Igawa, Clemens, Pettitte = No draft picks attatched
Trades of Johnson & Sheffield = adding to farm system depth

The Yankees could have gone after better players from 2004-2007 (ex. Lilly) but Cashman realized he had to protect his high picks to turn this thing around.

The Yankees were operating in silence for years while everyone in the press was saying the Mets had a much brighter future...


Cashman played this realization on farm system depth perfectly... he timed it right. Every team now will focus so much more on the draft and intl. free agency, because they realize the cost of free agents. I think that is the ultimate reason we jumped out of the Johan negotiations... Giving up talent and a 20 mil contract... no one else is going to do that... hence we waited till next year when we can give him a big contract for nothing.

The way of the future in baseball is going to be hardcore development of youngsters and big time trades (such as detroit- Florida) Free Agent contracts may stay status quo, but there will be less of them that's for sure. Maybe this will create more of a competitive balance... with less suitors for free agents, maybe KC will get more or Washington Nats...



Yankees got Hughes when Yankees got compensation for Losing Pettite to Astros. Don't blame it on over slotting in the draft

Jun 7, 2004: Drafted by the New York Yankees in the 1st round (23rd overall) in 2004.


Same with Joba and Ian Kennedy, The Yankees got compensation when Phillies sign Tom Gordon. Joba has hamstring issues back then, Yankees took a chance to draft him. It's all about good scouting and development.


The Tigers got Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller for over slotting and one year later they're traded to the Marlins

The Redsox got Clay Buccholz, Ellsbury and Daniel Bard from over slotting and spend so much on these guys?



Yankees target high ceiling injury risk pitchers (Brackman, Horne, Sanchez, Melancon, Chamberlain)

Will the Mets or any other team do this?

They target high ceiling high school players in the later rounds (8-10) with strong commitments to college (Angellini & Betances). They were like college recruiters with Angelli selling the Yankee brand (locker next to Jeter) to get him to change his mind.

Will the Mets do this?

The Redsox had a 2 year head start and the Yankees have caught up to them already. They had a monster draft in 06 and BA said they were top 5 in 0

Jerry

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:58 pm

I believe the yankees will get the 46th overall pick in next year’s draft as compensation for Viz.

Because they haven’t signed any type A free agents they’ll keep their own first round pick - #28.

They are going to get two talented players with those picks - likely guys who fall due to signability.

The Viz has better stuff than Hawkins - but compare their overall numbers. They aren’t that terribly different (viz strikes out more but also walks more).

I don’t think you can say that the Viz would be much better than Hawkins in 2008 to warrant the difference in contracts- 1 year at $3.75 vs. 3 years for $12 million?

A one year deal for Hawkins also give them flexibility - in 2009 the yankees are going to have a large wave of talented arms who had TJ surgery in 2007 who will likely be able to pitch at the major league level.

Signing Viz to a three year deal not only ties up money in a long term commitments but could block those talented arms - guys like Sanchez, Melancon, JB Cox - they may not be ready in 2008 but there’s a good chance all 3 could be pitching in 2009 in the yankee bullpen. Other guys like Kevin Whelan and Dave Robertson will also probably be ready for the major league pen in 2009.

A one year deal for Hawkins fits the yankees organizational needs.

Getting a sandwich round pick at #46 overall is a significant plus.

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:58 pm

1. the todd December 10th, 2007 at 1:54 pm

the yanks will have their first round pick plus this extra pick from viz. look out baseball, the yankees finally learned how to draft.
2. Peter Rabbit December 10th, 2007 at 1:55 pm

Wow, awesome for digging up what happened with Gordon and draft picks.

But I’m kinda worried that the Yankees need relief pitching NOW, and draft picks don’t do anything for our bullpen right NOW.

It was really great to have Viz this year, especially when he was ON. And with Girardi being a better manager of the bullpen than Torre, we could have stretched out his goodness even longer this season.

BAH.
3. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Save the Three Musketeers! December 10th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

From the last thread:

John–Yeah, just a pity the year they won the tournament I was a HS Junior! So I just missed it!

And tell me about defense…NONE of the teams I root for, except maybe the Devils, seem to understand what ‘defense’ is!

I remember Shaw telling us that 1-4 women was going to get date raped. It was scary. He was really nice though…really sad what happened.

I’m a history (medieval european) major and an English minor. The irony is I didn’t get into Newhouse…but I’m running a blog anyway.

What about you?
4. sean k December 10th, 2007 at 1:56 pm

He was not classified because classification is based on your last 2 years and 2005 wasn’t a good year for him. However, 2006 was so if LaTroy does well this year the Yankees could potentially get a supplemental round pick for him in ‘08.

I know it’s a long way off and not even worth thinking about at this point but hey, just saying…
5. james December 10th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

Nor should they
6. trapper700 December 10th, 2007 at 1:58 pm

gotta point out the fact that Phil Hughes was a compensatory pick for letting Pettitte go to Houston
7. mel December 10th, 2007 at 2:01 pm

Is there a little guy with his pencil and paper locked in a secret room somewhere that classifies each free agent?
8. whozat December 10th, 2007 at 2:01 pm

“But I’m kinda worried that the Yankees need relief pitching NOW, and draft picks don’t do anything for our bullpen right NOW.”

Signing Viz for three years _might_ have turned out well for this season. But he was probably not going to be good over the duration of the deal. And, there’s also a high likelihood that the last several years will catch up with him _now_
9. bartap December 10th, 2007 at 2:01 pm

Rebecca - I was also a history major/English minor, though I tossed in a PoliSci major as well. Basically, I majored in reading.
10. mel December 10th, 2007 at 2:02 pm

Trapper,

You’re kidding! That means the Big 3 is the Yankee destiny.
11. whozat December 10th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

“gotta point out the fact that Phil Hughes was a compensatory pick for letting Pettitte go to Houston”

Is this stuff really not common knowledge? Huh. I guess my obsessiveness really skews my reference point for what’s generally known about Yankee stuff.
12. SJ44 December 10th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

How do you know they don’t have the solution for their present bullpen issue from within the organization?

Just throwing money and multi-year contracts out to average guys aren’t going to make them above average performers.

A one year deal for Hawkins hurts nobody. If he is isn’t any good, there is no long term commitment. If he can do the job in the 7th inning, you have a guy that can eat some innings, while waiting for the younger arms to emerge.

Its a no risk deal. Precisely what you need to do when building a bullpen.

Nobody in the game has a magic formula for building a bullpen.

If there is one thing we have seen, its that teams that throw a ton of money and years into their bullpens for non-closers (see the Orioles and Cubs in recent years), usually end up regretting it.
13. DMan December 10th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

Who doesn’t like draft picks?
14. Bean Stringfellow December 10th, 2007 at 2:06 pm

Nobody beats the Viz…

NOBODY!
15. james December 10th, 2007 at 2:08 pm

Phil Pepe, He just wrote an article for Yes about the Yankees refusing to trade Phil Hughes for Santana and it being a burden for Phil. Is their an editor at Yes. They offered Hughes Pepe, they said it wasn’t enough. Pay attention.
16. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 10th, 2007 at 2:11 pm

But, in all likely hood we never would have lost the series in 2004 with Andy here. Sad
17. Mike R. December 10th, 2007 at 2:12 pm

james
December 10th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Phil Pepe, He just wrote an article for Yes about the Yankees refusing to trade Phil Hughes for Santana and it being a burden for Phil. Is their an editor at Yes. They offered Hughes Pepe, they said it wasn’t enough. Pay attention.

The NY media is already setting up the framework for some “Non-deserved Phill Hughes hate”. I hope he comes out of the gate strong because the reporters are already smelling blood in the water.
18. james December 10th, 2007 at 2:13 pm

2004 I have no memory of 2004 I remember 2003 and 2005. That weird.
19. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 10th, 2007 at 2:18 pm

and for anyone who’s interested this upcoming baseball draft is stacked Smile
20. mel December 10th, 2007 at 2:18 pm

The media’s just jealous because the fans love Hughes and absolutely HATE hack-artists.
21. John December 10th, 2007 at 2:19 pm

Rebecca,

I graduated from the Whitman School with my MBA in 2005. I enjoyed my time at Syracuse so much i decided to stick around. But sometimes I wonder why… I missed the 03′ run as well. I watched it out at Bar when i was living in Boston. It was a great time.
22. Mike R. December 10th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

Brandon - I’m always interested in the draft.. I had read that the high school players have elevated the draft class, because original reports were that it would be a thin crop.
23. james December 10th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

Mike R absolutely right. He doesn’t have to be anywhere close to Santana nor does Kennedy to justify not dealing them. Their younger and cheaper. I wrote in one the Blogs a couple of days ago how the reporters were goading the Yankee fans and Yankee organization about trading Jeter back in 1996 for Barry Larkin. All year article after article about how “you never know about young players” and “If Larkin helps you win a championship he’s worth the price”. Garbage.
24. CB December 10th, 2007 at 2:21 pm

I believe the yankees will get the 46th overall pick in next year’s draft as compensation for Viz.

Because they haven’t signed any type A free agents they’ll keep their own first round pick - #28.

They are going to get two talented players with those picks - likely guys who fall due to signability.

The Viz has better stuff than Hawkins - but compare their overall numbers. They aren’t that terribly different (viz strikes out more but also walks more).

I don’t think you can say that the Viz would be much better than Hawkins in 2008 to warrant the difference in contracts- 1 year at $3.75 vs. 3 years for $12 million?

A one year deal for Hawkins also give them flexibility - in 2009 the yankees are going to have a large wave of talented arms who had TJ surgery in 2007 who will likely be able to pitch at the major league level.

Signing Viz to a three year deal not only ties up money in a long term commitments but could block those talented arms - guys like Sanchez, Melancon, JB Cox - they may not be ready in 2008 but there’s a good chance all 3 could be pitching in 2009 in the yankee bullpen. Other guys like Kevin Whelan and Dave Robertson will also probably be ready for the major league pen in 2009.

A one year deal for Hawkins fits the yankees organizational needs.

Getting a sandwich round pick at #46 overall is a significant plus.
25. Mike R. December 10th, 2007 at 2:21 pm

james
December 10th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
2004 I have no memory of 2004 I remember 2003 and 2005. That weird.

The reason you don’t remember is because the world series wasn’t held in 2004 as to not interfere with the Olympics. At least that’s the way I remember it.
26. Nic December 10th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

How exactly does the classification system work? In other words, how does one get an A or B type free agent classification? Can anyone help me understand this? Thanks.
27. SJ44 December 10th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

Its the off-season. People have to write/say something.

You take it all with a grain of salt and form your own opinions once the season starts. All you can do.

I don’t see the logic of throwing out a lot of money to the relief pitchers available in this years FA pool.

None of them are difference makers.

That being the case, I have no issues with giving the young arms in the organization a shot.

If it doesn’t work, you re-tool the ‘pen during the season. Its not like that hasn’t been done in the past.

They will probably have to go outside the organization to bring in a LH specialist.

Aside from that, if I was the GM, I would roll the dice with what I have in the organization if a deal isn’t out there that’s appealing.
28. Mike R. December 10th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

James - I read that post from you right here. Brilliant. That was an excellent point.

I know I might catch some flack for what I’m going to write here but here it goes. If we don’t win the World Series next year, but I see solid progress out of Joba, Hughes and Kennedy I think that the season was a success. We really are headed towards a great run in a few years.
29. james December 10th, 2007 at 2:25 pm

Mike R.

The reason you don’t remember is because the world series wasn’t held in 2004 as to not interfere with the Olympics. At least that’s the way I remember it.

okay I wont explore it further then cuz I started to type in to a search engine and I was sweating and felt like I was gonna pass out.
30. CB December 10th, 2007 at 2:27 pm

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:59 pm

[quote]
Nic,

The Type A vs. Type B designation is based on analyses made by the Elias Sports Bureau.

Elias looks at the performance of players for the preceding two years and then ranks all players.

As I understand it - Elias does not make the formula/ methodology they use to create the rankings open to the public. They hold it as something like a trade secret.

Overall the rankings can be really strange and often seem arbitrary - two players with similar performance over the last two years wind up with wildly different ranking levels.

It’s hard to make sense of why they are ranked as A or B but that’s the system MLB uses.
31. whozat December 10th, 2007 at 2:28 pm

“How exactly does the classification system work? In other words, how does one get an A or B type free agent classification? Can anyone help me understand this? Thanks.”

Elias (I think) or maybe Baseball America ranks all players (roughly by position) based on their last two (maybe three?) years of performance.

The top 10 or 15% are Type A, the next 20 or 25% are Type B, and everyone else is unclassified.

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:00 pm


I think 1B/OF/DH is one category, SP and RP are separate categories, and everything else is as you’d expect. CFers might be separate, I don’t remember.
32. james December 10th, 2007 at 2:28 pm

Mike R. I agree with you and I would take it further by dedicating the team around those arms and the other kids and not sign guys like Hawkins who are going to take someones roster spot. Although I would get Marte.
33. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 10th, 2007 at 2:29 pm

Mike R.
December 10th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Brandon - I’m always interested in the draft.. I had read that the high school players have elevated the draft class, because original reports were that it would be a thin crop.

those reports are always premature there are high ceiling talents in this draft
34. rb15 December 10th, 2007 at 2:30 pm

a repost from the last thread (paraphrased):

mel - i’m a girl.

Rebecca - it’s techinically flag football, but since most of the people that play are ultra-competitive ex-college athletes, we tend to beat each other up a little. I play linebacker, and I’m usually sore the next day. A lot of the women that play in my league also play in the national women’s football league, the NFL’s sister league. They play all over the country, and they’re extremely dedicated. And, they *really* know what they’re doing - I’m kind of a football newbie, but those women are the real deal.
35. Stringbean Fellow December 10th, 2007 at 2:30 pm

The Viz was beaten many times last year - early and often.
36. Nic December 10th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

Quote:
Elias (I think) or maybe Baseball America ranks all players (roughly by position) based on their last two (maybe three?) years of performance.

The top 10 or 15% are Type A, the next 20 or 25% are Type B, and everyone else is unclassified.

I think 1B/OF/DH is one category, SP and RP are separate categories, and everything else is as you’d expect. CFers might be separate, I don’t remember.
Awesome, thanks for the information… I’ve got no problem with signing Hawkins, but given that he was unclassified, why did we have to shell out close to $4 million to get him in pinstripes?
37. Little Rocket December 10th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

Who is going to pitch the 7th and 8th innings in 2008? Hawkins and Farnsworth??? That’s a recipe for disaster and everybody knows it. We don’t even have Scott Proctor to kick around anymore!!
38. mel December 10th, 2007 at 2:32 pm

How low have the Mets sunk? Their GM is forced to say stuff like, “Right now, you have to pick the Phillies [to win the East], because they’re the champs. But I still like our club.”

I don’t like to see others suffer, o.k. I do, but they were the toast of the town a year ago.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=klapisch_bob&id=3148683
39. james December 10th, 2007 at 2:32 pm

Woulda been nice if Viz coulda given us 1 scoreless inning in game 2.
40. Nic December 10th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

“Who is going to pitch the 7th and 8th innings in 2008? Hawkins and Farnsworth??? That’s a recipe for disaster and everybody knows it. We don’t even have Scott Proctor to kick around anymore!!”

I worry about this a little bit too… I’m not sure who you go to in the big situations next year. I think Farnsworth has to be better than he was last year (I really don’t think he can get much worse,) but I don’t know if that’s good enough for those innings. Seems like we’re going in with a crap shoot bullpen… hope it all works out.
41. Mike R. December 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pm

Brandon - I have my eye on Eric Hosmer. The high school first baseman from FL. I think we might even be able to land him in the sandwich round depending on how the year plays out. A RH power hitting firstbaseman would be great to have in the new stadium.
42. james December 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pm

The new Mets anthem (I linked this yesterday)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJCU4xf5IJE
43. mel December 10th, 2007 at 2:34 pm

rb15,

I know, I suffered a similar identity crisis here. I think Pete should do a poll to see how may of us are men and how many are women. There’s a surprising number of “girls” here. Maybe the ads would change if they saw the demographics.
44. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 10th, 2007 at 2:39 pm

Mike R- The Yankees may be looking for a LHP fireballer in this years draft, maybe even a high ceiling backstop

Raymund Nunez was just signed by the Yankees international scouts word on him good eye at the plate, can pick it at 1B and has a 75 on the 20-80 power scale. I doubt 1B is the big priority.
45. rb15 December 10th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

And as a woman, I also have to say that I’m very glad Tyler Clippard’s mom reads this blog. It gives me hope that maybe some of the Yankees themselves do. Which means…

Hi Derek. How YOU doin?
46. CB December 10th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

“those reports are always premature there are high ceiling talents in this draft”

It’ll be really interesting to see who Tampa takes at #1 in the draft next year.

Do they take a guy like Pedro Alvarez if he has another big year? With Longoria their 3rd base situation looks pretty good for the next 10 years (Longoria seems as likely as an prospect in baseball to have a productive career).

Or do the Rays take another college pitcher? Brian Matusz- add yet another high ceiling lefty to their system?

In the best of all worlds a talented left handed arm would fall to the yankees. Or perhaps an athletic corner outfielder?
47. Prince December 10th, 2007 at 2:42 pm

CB

couldnt have said it better myself.
48. Brandon (Proud supporter of "ALEX BEING ALEX") December 10th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

CB I want the lefty Smile
49. S.o.S.27 December 10th, 2007 at 2:46 pm

I dont understand why so many are down on Hawkins. Bullpen pitchers are a more of a crap shoot, unless they are closers for teams. Even then they could be a toss up. Ask Boston last year after picking up Gagne. Hawkins at worse could come in to games that need someone to eat innings. Something Proctor did last year. To say he is going to suck from now is just being blind to bullpen arms.

Who would have thought that Okajima for the Red Sox would have a season like he did last year. His e.r.a. was lower than it was in Japan. Explain that to me.

Explain Sheilds from the Angels losing his setup role last year do to innefectiveness. Or closer Brad Lidge who was traded to Philly. Who would have thought he would be available 3 years ago.

The point im trying to make is 1 year deal isnt going to handcuff us like 3 or 4 (Farns). Viscaino had a couple of bad months last year so its not like Hawkins is taking the place of someone and doesnt have room for error.

Expect our young guys to pick up the slack when needed. Be thankful that we now have Girardi at the helm. Where we can finally depend on youngsters rather than retreads.
50. whozat December 10th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

“Or perhaps an athletic corner outfielder?”

That’s what Tabata is, if he’s not a CFer:-)

The big holes in the Yankee system are in the middle infield, LHP, and C. With ARod at 3B for the next several years and Posada needing to play a lot of 1B in about two years, I doubt they’re that worried about corner IF right now.
51. S.o.S.27 December 10th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

One more thing, If Viz was lights out like some make him seem than we wouldnt have needed to call up Joba last year.
52. 2008 is NYY Time, Folks !!! December 10th, 2007 at 2:49 pm

LaTroy Hawkins and the Patriots both STINK !
53. Mike R. December 10th, 2007 at 2:49 pm

CB - I think the Rays, or anyone, has to go with the best talent available. In next years case if everything is the same as it is right now, they might go with Smoak because he and Alvarez are close, but you can’t think of it in terms of needs. Look at Milwaukee last year with LaPorta. They’re looking pretty smart right now.

If Alavrez is the real deal and you don’t have anywhere to put him you could always trade him or Longoria to the Twins and Giants of the moment.
54. CB December 10th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

Brandon,

I agree. I’d love for them to get a high ceiling lefty. Unfortunatelly, I don’t think it’ll happen.

Lefties are just so difficult to find. Of all the players who are going to fall, left handers are the least likely.

We’ll see. That’s a real need.
55. whozat December 10th, 2007 at 2:50 pm

“Where we can finally depend on youngsters rather than retreads.”

Or, at least, expect them to get a legit shot:-)

I know I harp on the Britton thing, but seriously…excellent numbers in the minors, a year of solid success in the AL East after jumping up from A ball…why didn’t this guy get a shot? They’d bring him up and he’d sit for days, then get benched when he wasn’t sharp.

I hope newjoe gives him some high-leverage innings if he has a good spring.
56. DVB 4ever December 10th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

amen to THAT !
57. james December 10th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

S.o.S.27 do you want Farnsworth back cuz hes on a one year deal. I wont put words in your mouth but a lot of Yankee fans believe he’s terrible cuz they’ve seen him pitch and would rather he go be a crazy a*#hole someplace else. I’ve seen Hawkins pitch. He’s awful. If you told me to pick 1 of 2 doors and said behind door #1 is a man who’s going to shoot you and I don’t know what’s behind door #2. I’m not going to pick door #1 and hope he misses.
58. Scooter December 10th, 2007 at 2:52 pm

SoS -

I think that’s the idea. There’s a LOT of relief help coming - it’s just that a lot of it may not be ready til midseason at the earliest (Melancon, Humberto Sanchez, Robertson, Whelan, JB Cox).

1-year deals are the perfect way to bridge from April to August/September, and provide insurance against the pen kids that might be ready for April (Ohlendorf, Ramirez, Marquez?) not getting the job done

CB - I think you still go for the best available guy in any draft. And regardless of organizational needs, pitching always has a premium value in trades.

The other thing - there’s always position players available in free agency. Premium pitching never is. By keeping a (relatively) cost-controlled starting staff and pen, there’s always resources to go get the best free agents to fill voids in the field.
59. Mike R. December 10th, 2007 at 2:53 pm

Brandon and CB - This question is for you because you seem to know your stuff. any idea why analysts are down on Jordan Danks? The guy was first round talent out of high school and has been highly touted since, but I rarely see him mentioned on top prospect lists.
60. whozat December 10th, 2007 at 2:54 pm

“but you can’t think of it in terms of needs.”

I think you can think of it in terms of systemic needs, but not MLB needs. But not to the point where you’re drafting significantly less talented guys just because of the position you think they can play.
61. S.o.S.27 December 10th, 2007 at 2:55 pm

mel-rb15,

I know, I suffered a similar identity crisis here. I think Pete should do a poll to see how may of us are men and how many are women. There’s a surprising number of “girls” here. Maybe the ads would change if they saw the demographics.

Man I never knew you were a women mel? I guess with mel as your name in this blog, I assumed you were a guy. My bad.

Keep the laughs comming MEL enjoy your posts. Comedy at its best or Class Clown of the blog(My original goal here).
62. whozat December 10th, 2007 at 2:56 pm

“CB - I think you still go for the best available guy in any draft. And regardless of organizational needs, pitching always has a premium value in trades.”

Unless it doesn’tSmile

I mean…if the Twins REALLY think Lester/Lowrie is worth more than Hughes, they’re clearly not putting a premium on pitching.
63. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge December 10th, 2007 at 2:59 pm

You guys are too much. Laughing The baseball season also ended when the Yankees were knocked out. There was no more baseball after that.
64. CB December 10th, 2007 at 3:01 pm

“Or perhaps an athletic corner outfielder?”
That’s what Tabata is, if he’s not a CFer:-)
The big holes in the Yankee system are in the middle infield, LHP, and C. ”

Tabata is the Yankees only good corner outfield prospect. Having one corner outfielder in the entire system who projects to be a good player is hardly an organizational strength.

It’s a major need.

On top of that Tabata has never played above A ball and is coming off wrist surgery.

Tabata alone in no way is adequate for their outfield needs in the future.

Matsui, Damon and Abrue are fast approaching their mid thirties. Outfield is going to be a huge need for them. very soon.

Jackson and Tabata have potential but if the yankees want to stay out of the free agent market they really need to reinforce their minor league outfield talent.

On the other hand middle infield and catcher is actually much less of an organizational need because of what they did in the 2007 draft.

For middle infield they drafted Damon Sublett, Justin Synder, and Carmine Angelini. Bradaeyn Pruitt’s final position is also not decided, though he does look like a 3rd basebman. Sublett, Synder, and Pruitt all had great NY Penn seasons. Angellini is one of the most talented players they drafted. Fell due to signability.

For catchers they drafted Austin Romine and Chase Weems - both are very good prospects. That’s on top of the strong seasons both Cerevelli and Montero had.
65. hmmm December 10th, 2007 at 3:01 pm

“Who is going to pitch the 7th and 8th innings in 2008? Hawkins and Farnsworth??? That’s a recipe for disaster and everybody knows it. We don’t even have Scott Proctor to kick around anymore!!”

OH NO!!! not the 7th and 8th INNINGS!!11!11

in the 7th and 8th inning, all of the rules of baseball change and it becomes 100 X’s harder to get outs than in all the other innings.

the fielders can’t wear their gloves, every batter starts with a 2-0 count, and the other team gets to send up their 3-4-5 hitters no matter who ended the previous inning.

the bullpen will be fine. the yankees have too many good arms in the minors for 1 or 2 of them not to emerge.

you are just scared of going into the season without knowing who those guys are yet. relax.
66. S.o.S.27 December 10th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

james-S.o.S.27 do you want Farnsworth back cuz hes on a one year deal. I wont put words in your mouth but a lot of Yankee fans believe he’s terrible cuz they’ve seen him pitch and would rather he go be a crazy a*#hole someplace else. I’ve seen Hawkins pitch. He’s awful. If you told me to pick 1 of 2 doors and said behind door #1 is a man who’s going to shoot you and I don’t know what’s behind door #2. I’m not going to pick door #1 and hope he misses.

Im not a Farns fan. Its not because i doubt his ability. Its his attitude that just doesnt do it for me. Same with Mussina. So to answer your question the first chance they get to rid themselves of Farns I would pack his bags personally and drive him to the airport. I know Hawkins isnt a shutdown pitcher or he wouldnt settle for a one year deal. But he might not have to be. As someone mentioned here, we have a ton of young arms including Britton,Veras, Ramirez(skeptical) and more in the minors that can bridge the gap to Rivera. Just think our last years 8th inning guys aside from Joba had an e.r.a. of over 4. We still won 90+ games.

I still expect Cash to make a trade for a lefty. Hopefullly Marte.
67. hmmm December 10th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

“I know I harp on the Britton thing, but seriously…excellent numbers in the minors, a year of solid success in the AL East after jumping up from A ball…why didn’t this guy get a shot? They’d bring him up and he’d sit for days, then get benched when he wasn’t sharp.”

those days are OVER.
[/quote]

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Post  Admin Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:21 pm

David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, Trot Nixon and Kevin Youkilis.. I hope their names it's on the mitchell list.

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