Yankees 4 Championship is LEGIT

Admin Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:04 pm

Yankees 4 Championship is LEGIT

First of all, Clemens was maybe the LEAST important pitcher for the Yanks in the championship years. He was TERRIBLE in the playoffs.

Yankees won a championships without Clemens in 1996 and 1998. Pettite didn't use Hgh till 2002.

Stanton didn't use till he was with the Mets.

David Justice was good, but please, other teams the Yanks faced had steroid guys as well.

The championships were built around legit guys...girardi, rivera, jeter, posada, brosius, oneill, etc. etc.

Those guys were all clean. The yanks had no advantage over other teams ESPECIALLY because Clemens sucked in the playoffs. I agree these guys are cheaters but the Yanks were at no advantage over other teams and their victories were legit. Just like the Sox victories were legit this year even though they probably have steroid users on their roster as well even though they haven't been named.

courtesy of Mark Feinstein’s blog (NY Daily News)
A look at the four Yankees title teams in the Joe Torre era show several players in this report on those rosters:

1996: Andy Pettitte

1998: Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Stanton, Darren Holmes

1999: Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch, Roger Clemens, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley, Daniel Naulty

2000: Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch, Roger Clemens, Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley, David Justice, Jose Canseco, Glenallen Hill, Denny Neagle

That list looks pretty bad. But is it? According to the Mitchell report, Knoblauch’s first purchase of HGH came in 2001. That would mean he was clean during the title years. Same with Justice, who reportedly didn’t meet Kirk Radomski until after the 2000 World Series. Pettitte’s usage was in 2002, according to the report, while Hill’s purchase from Radomski came in 2001, after he had left the Yankees.

Admin Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:11 pm

Alex Rodriguez on '60 Minutes' this Sunday (12/16)

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml

The baseball superstar talks to Katie Couric about performance-enhancing drugs in baseball, his amazing career, and his personal life.

Admin Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:27 pm

So, what did we learn today?

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/

A few thoughts on this day in baseball:

The era of good feeling is over: MLB and the MLBPA have been quite chummy for a few years now. The last collective bargaining agreement was fairly painless and they’ve cooperated on various issues, primarily the WBC. The Mitchell Report could change that. The MLBPA got tossed under the bus for a lot of this and Bud Selig didn’t.

Lawyer up: Every team is putting out sanitized statements now. You’re going to hear a lot of “we have to move on” from all involved.

What about Congress? Predictably, the headline-hungry Reps and Senators in Washington are calling for all manner of changes and the head of Selig. Tell you what, once no more kids are getting killed in Iraq you can worry about Paul Lo Duca sticking a needle in his butt.

Roger retired: Make it official now, the Rocket is retired. There won’t be any 2008 midseason comeback after this mess. Koby, Kory, Korncob, Krazy Kat and the rest of those Clemens kids will have a full-time BP pitcher.

Not worth it: Take a look at the list of players. Most are either bums or guys who ended up becoming injured. These are performance enhancing drugs? Andy Pettitte supposedly took HGH for his elbow. He had surgery anyway. Clemens has been dogged by injuries the last few years. At some point, even baseball players have to be smart enough to realize that the short-terms gains are not worth the long-term implications.

Thanks for the ethics: A list of names was going around the internet this morning that proved to be false. Incredibly, some web sites published it. I’d like to hope this teaches them a lesson in confirming news before publishing it but that would be wishful thinking.

Finally: To me, the Mitchell Report was as useful as Carl Pavano. Most of the names were ones we have heard before. If the good Senator did not have the forced cooperation of Kirk Radomski and Brian McNamee, he would have had almost nothing. The names revealed were basically of those players stupid enough to write checks to a lug like Radomski.

Know this much: There are dozens of players breathing a sigh of relief today that they didn’t get caught. If they get scared straight, good. But MLB should invest its money in more frequent and effective tests. That’s the only way this ends. Telling us Chuck Knoblauch did something wrong seven years ago is meaningless.

# Prete Funk Era December 13th, 2007 at 6:53 pm

This is an interesting day to say the least.
# Mark Gindi December 13th, 2007 at 6:54 pm

Pete,
GREAT COVERAGE TODAY. THOUGHT THAT SHOULD BE THE FIRST POST!!! GREAT COVERAGE ALL DAY - FELT LIKE I WAS THERE
# Save Phil Hughes! December 13th, 2007 at 6:55 pm

lol…Korncob, Krazy Kat

Koby, Kory, Korncob, Krazy Kat and the rest of those Clemens kids will have a full-time BP pitcher.
# RosterRooster December 13th, 2007 at 6:56 pm

Is Washington really getting involved?
# Eli December 13th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

This is mostly in keeping with the players who have been suspended and the research Baseball Prospectus has done on PEDs–it gives, at best, a tiny improvement in performance, and it’s most used by marginal players and pitchers desperately trying to make it or get back from injury. The amount of useless ink spilled, ridiculous grandstanding and media blovating on this has been really sad. Pete, thanks for being a (too lonely) voice of sanity on the PEDapollozza today.
# Dave December 13th, 2007 at 6:58 pm

No recourse? I am not a lawyer but if this is a lie, couldnt he sue for libel or defamation of character? This publication will cause great harm to clemens’ character and probably keep him out of the hall of fame for a number of years at the very least. If it is a lie, i think clemens has the money to sue for damages. If he sues and wins, I will believe that statement. Otherwise, he is full of crap because any one who is innocent of this would most certainly begin a lawsuit. And now that he is retired, he has the time for a long, drawn out performance as well.
# Hooog December 13th, 2007 at 6:59 pm

Washington is only getting involved because everyone there wants positive PR and they think is a way to get it. Just say not to performance enhancers. Now take my picture. I am working so hard to protect and assist the voters in my district. Now, let me vote myself a pay increase too.
# the todd December 13th, 2007 at 7:02 pm

is anyone else excited for the back pages tomorrow? i love me some witty headlines!
# mel December 13th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

Pete,

I know you’re trying to be funny and you sound like a great uncle. But I can tell you don’t have kids.

Tempted to do something? Ask yourself if you would have to lie to your kids about it if they asked you point-blank about it. I feel for Nikolai and the Clemens kids. I’m sure their fathers lied to them about it.
# stinko December 13th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

Nice lefty political editorializing about Iraq, Pete.
# rodg12 December 13th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

Pete, I’d also like to offer Kudos to you for your coverage today. GREAT JOB!!!!!!
# stinko December 13th, 2007 at 7:04 pm

Nice lefty liberal political editorializing about Iraq, Pete.
# Ricky Jimmies December 13th, 2007 at 7:06 pm

Pete,

Take it easy with the political commentary (”kids are getting killed in Iraq”). As I am sure you’re well aware, foreign policy is not the sole concern of our representatives.

Aside from that, nice work.
# Prete Funk Era December 13th, 2007 at 7:10 pm

Did anyone see Randy Velarde’s name? Seriously when was the last time he played?
# Hooog December 13th, 2007 at 7:11 pm

Yeah, I figured Leyritz before Velarde.
# Kyle From CT December 13th, 2007 at 7:13 pm

David Justice was just on YES saying that he never did HGH.
# Hooog December 13th, 2007 at 7:13 pm

Of course, I say that knowing full well that the list is not even a close representation of who is and who is not guilty. If theye were going to name names, I wish they would heve spent more time and MLB money investigating other areas outside NY and perhaps the latin american countries.
# Dave December 13th, 2007 at 7:13 pm

So pete, without radomski and mcnamee this report would be less than nothing? You said it ten times already today! Just kidding, great coverage today and i always appreciate your dedications to giving your blog readers the most updated and comprehensive information. I couldnt ask for anything better than that out of a yankees blog. Thanks for everything you do.

They are all going to deny, deny, deny but unless they actually go out and sue mitchell and whoever else for defamation of character and libel, I will believe they took the roids at some point in their careers.
# RosterRooster December 13th, 2007 at 7:14 pm

C’mon, that Iraq refrence was the best part of the post. I can’t stand it when the U.S. Govt.gets involved in baseball. Just election year politics I suppose.
# melky December 13th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

Am I being paranoid or is it a bit odd that the trainers and others that implicated the players today were all former employees of the Mets/Yankees. How can you release this study without input from trainers/former or curent employees of the other team. I know they were stonewalled.

This study seems like the tip of the iceberg yet very few players from say the Tampa Bay Devil Rays or Arizona Diamondbacks were named. Luis Gonzales, as an example would seem to be a perfect candidate.

And although I think Mitchell meant well, his affilation with the Red Sox can’t be ignored yet he seemd indignant when asked about it.

My sense is that the steroid issue is rampant and the Yankess and a few others were thrown under the bus. What i can’t figure out is why release a halfass study.
# The Monk December 13th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

What “kids” are getting killed in Iraq? Since when are 18-year olds who can vote, drive, marry and perform every other adult responsibility available to them “kids”?

The brave young adults who volunteered (and EVERY ONE is a volunteer) to serve this country in its armed forces deserve your respect. Refraining from infantilizing them and denigrating their decision to serve their country would be step one in that process, Pete.
# Mehdi the Arsenal fan December 13th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

Hey Stinko, what’s the problem with highlighting that we are at War and this stuff isn’t as important? Quit picking on a guy and get back to your meat and rifles Razz

# Scott December 13th, 2007 at 7:17 pm

I’m with you Pete, in no way should names have be mentioned that have not be caught since testing began. This report literally is something a college student could of written.

Thanks Comish learned a lot.
# Mehdi the Arsenal fan December 13th, 2007 at 7:18 pm

18 years old is still a kid.
# eric in queens December 13th, 2007 at 7:18 pm

Taking “it easy with political commentary” is what gets countries stuck in quagmires (aka Iraq). More people should speak their minds whether they are “qualified” to do so or not. If Curt Schilling gets to run his mouth about how great fighting in Iraq is, perhaps we could use a counter point.

As for Roger… Did anyone see the look in his eyes when he fired that bat at Piazza? This is a total non-story as far as he goes.
# Chuck Knoblauch's homerun ball December 13th, 2007 at 7:19 pm

We have all wondered for so many years, why Chuck Knoblauch hit so many homeruns. No we know! Thanks George and Bud. You answered the question that caused me to sleep at night
# Oti December 13th, 2007 at 7:19 pm

“Nice lefty liberal political editorializing about Iraq, Pete.”

Come on, you don’t need to be a leftist or a liberal to believe that Iraq is a mess. In fact, it is mainstream public opinion.
# Hooog December 13th, 2007 at 7:19 pm

Because Bud demanded it. The weirdest part of the report is that while it releases names, Mitchell says that Bud should not punish the plaeyers unless he deems the crime so agregious against baseball, but at the same time Mitchell says tehy need to move forward. It seems they were moving forward before all this went down. Now, this report will rehash all the past and cause more distrust and animosity between the owners and the players. Great

Admin Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:30 pm

Clemens “vehemently denies” charges

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/

Roger Clemens had attorney Rusty Hardin issue this statement:

Clemens Denies Claims in Mitchell Report
False Accusation Comes from Troubled Witness Under Threat of Criminal Prosecution

(Houston, TX) – December 13, 2007 – Roger Clemens vehemently denies allegations in the Mitchell report that he used performance-enhancing steroids, and is outraged that his name is included in the report based on the uncorroborated allegations of a troubled man threatened with federal criminal prosecution. “Roger has been repeatedly tested for these substances and he has never tested positive. There has never been one shred of tangible evidence that he ever used these substances and yet he is being slandered today,” said Clemens attorney Rusty Hardin.

“The use of steroids in sports is a serious problem, it is wrong and it should be stopped,” Hardin said. “However, I am extremely upset that Roger’s name was in this report based on the allegations of a troubled and unreliable witness who only came up with names after being threatened with possible prison time.”

Brian McNamee, a former trainer who worked with Clemens on the Toronto Blue Jays and the New York Yankees, has repeatedly denied these current claims, including in June of this year when he was first contacted by federal investigators. According to McNamee, after a day of repeated denials to federal investigators, he changed his story under the threat of federal criminal prosecution. He says he was then forced by those federal prosecutorial authorities to tell the same story for inclusion in the Mitchell report.

“I am at a total loss to understand how it is proper for federal prosecutorial authorities to use the threat of criminal prosecution to help in a private business investigation,” Hardin said.

“I have great respect for Senator Mitchell. I think an overall look at this problem in baseball was an excellent idea. But I respectfully suggest it is very unfair to include Roger’s name in this report. He is left with no meaningful way to combat what he strongly contends are totally false allegations. He has not been charged with anything, he will not be charged with anything and yet he is being tried in the court of public opinion with no recourse. That is totally wrong.”

1. cupaJOBA December 13th, 2007 at 6:15 pm

I’m sure every other player accused will follow suit.. except Grimsley and Lo Docu who have receipts, checks and pretty much used needles photocopied in the report.
2. mel December 13th, 2007 at 6:15 pm

Where is this Mr. McNamee now?
3. Mehdi the Arsenal fan December 13th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

first
4. Ethan December 13th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

The statement doesn’t mention suing Mitchell for slander. If he really believes it was slander and is telling the truth, he could at least consider suing to clear his name.
5. Ryan December 13th, 2007 at 6:17 pm

“Rusty Hardin”

heh heh
6. SJ44 December 13th, 2007 at 6:17 pm

Mitchell can’t be sued. He is indemnified from legal action by MLB.
7. kd December 13th, 2007 at 6:19 pm

I agree with the last paragraph, there is absolutely nothing a player can do. Roger will defend himself tooth and nail, this is a very tough situation
8. Jaewon December 13th, 2007 at 6:19 pm

What a mess. In my mind Clemens definitely did it though. I don’t think we’re gonna have to worry about Clemens saying “I’m 90% going to retire… I signed with the Yankees/Astros.” That was getting old. Smile

9. ryanloghry December 13th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

I can’t believe it.
10. Willard December 13th, 2007 at 6:20 pm

Mel :

Brian McNamee was spotted with Kirk Radomski trying the get over the Triboro Bridge. Both had large blocks of cheese and rodent costumes.
11. Motown Yankees Fan December 13th, 2007 at 6:22 pm

SJ44 - I’m confused about this statement: “Mitchell can’t be sued. He is indemnified from legal action by MLB.”

Isn’t it more correct to state that Mitchell will not be on the hook monetarily for any liability by virtue of an indemnification from MLB and that therefore if Roger sues, MLB would pay damages that Mitchell would otherwise be liable for?
12. Chicago Dave December 13th, 2007 at 6:22 pm

Just took a break at work to catch up on all the comments posted today. All I can say is, “What the heck ever happened to that great idea Pete once had about registration?!”. I’ve never seen so many moronic trolls bust out of the woodwork as I have seen today. So ready to seek out the names of anyone who ever had even a cup of coffee in a Yankee uniform and then call the Yankees “cheaters” who “stole” their championships.

Well, just look at the list. I don’t see anyone of consequence other than Andy, Roger and Giambi (I’m not counting Knoblauch…Lord knows he never amounted to anything in a Yankee uniform!). Mostly it’s nobodies or extreme fringe players who contributed absolutely nothing to the Yanks’ success, nor were they with the team for anything more than a season (if even that long). Most of these guys (including Roger and Giambi) also started using ‘roids before the played for the Yanks.

Nevermind the fact that the report itself rests mainly on the testimony of two flunkies trying to save their own skin, or that it was authored by a man with clear ties to the Red Sox. Why didn’t he ask Canseco about his time with the Sox? Gee, I wonder?! Let’s see, he did his darndest to find anyone that ever had anything to do with the Yankees, but barely lifted a finger to do the same with the Sox. Such biased, unsubstantiated crap! This report should be tossed in the trash like a copy of the National Enquirer.
13. Vince December 13th, 2007 at 6:23 pm

Donald Fehr standing at a podium is far more professional than Bud “Mr. Integrity” Selig could ever hope to be.
14. Save Phil Hughes! December 13th, 2007 at 6:23 pm

lol
Good Luck with this Roger
15. pat December 13th, 2007 at 6:26 pm

Can’t sue the messenger? Clemens can sue McNamee.
16. doug December 13th, 2007 at 6:26 pm

Mel,

Question of the night. Where is this Mr. McNamee?
17. RosterRooster December 13th, 2007 at 6:28 pm

“it is very unfair to include Roger’s name in this report.”

I see.
18. Mark McCray December 13th, 2007 at 6:29 pm

Well..so what Mr. Mitchell….It’s the 21st century…Pete uses his blog as a perfomance enhancer why cant roger use steroids?…riddle me that lolol
19. pat December 13th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

Thankfully Scott Brosius wasn’t named so he can still be held up as the beacon of things not A-Rod-like.
20. mel December 13th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

Willard, lol.

doug,

Watching ESPN news and they keep saying that McNamee talked to avoid jailtime. What was he busted for? Did Mitchell’s panel have prosecutorial power?
21. GL December 13th, 2007 at 6:33 pm

Credit to Michael Kay…

No Rafael Palmiero (positive test), Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota (suspension due to positive test)…how can that be?
22. Brian (Red Sox Fan) December 13th, 2007 at 6:34 pm

This is a “non-denial denial.” In effect, Clemens has said:(1) I am outraged that my name is in the report based on the testimony of a dubious witness in a federal criminal case, and;
(2) I have never tested positive for PEDs.

The statement from Clemens Camp is lawyerly drivel which NEVER answers the question, “Have you taken PEDs?” He could have answered this question for the Mitchell Group, but declined the opportunity. He was often “retired,” so the union did not drive that personal decision.

Parse the words. He has denied NOTHING! He is putting up the standard defense of demonizing the witness (see Johnny Cochrane) and deliberately misinterpreting the basic issue (see Bill Clinton). In this case, you don’t have to believe Mitchell …. believe your “lying eyes,” as the joke goes.
23. Ray December 13th, 2007 at 6:35 pm

I believe they used waterboarding to get this testimony!
24. RVA Yanks December 13th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

The reporting of the Mitchell Report on the major networks is TERRIBLE. It’s mostly a laundry list of names and then extended talking about Clemens. ABC at least didn’t go into much criticism if at all of the report in their story.
25. foobar December 13th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

Admin Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:30 pm

[quote]
” 6. SJ44 December 13th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Mitchell can’t be sued. He is indemnified from legal action
by MLB.”

Wrong. He can be sued. Why would an indemnity clause protect a private citizen from lawsuits?

Even as a yankee fan, if some of the named names don’t react with a lawsuit, I’ll find that damning.
Even though the report per se is still a joke.
26. I conducted my own report December 13th, 2007 at 6:38 pm

No Varitek? Thats how you know Mitchell is on the Sox payroll.
27. helno51 December 13th, 2007 at 6:39 pm

my favorite part of today was the moronic comments from russo. a few months ago in a discussion on wfan about clemens place in history dog bad mouthed clemens post season accomplishments and said he was along for the ride. today he was saying how he pitched a bunch of big games in the 2000 postseason. i know he hates the yankees but could he be a little less transparent.
28. Deryck December 13th, 2007 at 6:40 pm

In order to be guilty of slander, one must knowingly provide false information in an attempt (or as a result) to damage someone financially or “socially”.

If the Jays guy knew what he was saying was untrue, was their a maliciousness to what he was saying? Of course, he also wasn’t providing this to public sources, so I think it may be difficult to prove he was trying to damage Clemens. Of course the opposite could be true, too. He could very well have known this would become public.

Where does the line between perjury and slander fall in this unique case?
29. Deryck December 13th, 2007 at 6:42 pm

“No Varitek? Thats how you know Mitchell is on the Sox payroll.”

Of course their was no Brady Anderson, Roberto Alomar, etc on their either. Thats how you know Mitchell is on the other teams payrolls.

Actually, as he said, there are many names not on there. The names that are are the ones that came as a result of the interviews and info he got. I can’t believe Mitchell is a guy who would put players on the team he is partly an owner of before justice. Of course that sounds naive, but I believe that in him
30. foobar December 13th, 2007 at 6:42 pm

More info on what the indemnity clause covers http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/sports/baseball/15steroids.html?ref=baseball

* The report’s incompleteness and superficiality is a joke
* The clear conflict of interest in having a Red Sox director conjure up this drivel for $60M is moronic and ridiculous
* That said, if some of the named names don’t react with a lawsuit against Mitchell (and hence MLB) for slander, I’d deem that damning… am a yankee fan, but willing to be fair
31. ThatWasMe December 13th, 2007 at 6:44 pm

brian(red sox fan)
Yeah I guess we should just believe you and Brian McNamee then.
32. pat December 13th, 2007 at 6:46 pm

David Justice is going to be on YES in a few minutes to comment.
33. Ranting Guy December 13th, 2007 at 6:46 pm

In the time it took me to type this, two new threads started. I’ll re-post:

*************************************

People (especially my fellow Yanks fans) who write Pettitte off for being in the report need to be reminded that HGH was legal when he had his shots. And if they were for the purposes we’ve heard (assuming that info is true) then its no different than having a cortisone shot to heal an injury. Cortisone is also a steroid … was cortisone part of the investigation? If it was like that, then he wasn’t doing what Bonds or Giambi were doing.

Sox trolls: You’re getting a little too pumped up on what amounts to hearsay for your own good. Note the limited sources of information. Note some obvious omissions from other teams. If trainers from the other 28 teams (or Canseco) were questioned and if they obliged with answers, then the list of players would increase proportionally. So would the number of players from that list being undeservedly slandered by the likes of you.

You sound pretty … arrogant (how ironic) … considering how limited the report apparently is.
34. BWH December 13th, 2007 at 6:46 pm

First, to be nitpicky, Mitchell would be sued for liable, not slander.

Second, MLB has agreed to pay for any/all legal costs and liabilities should Mitchell be sued.

Here’s a good article on the subject:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=3142722
35. Deryck December 13th, 2007 at 6:46 pm

“* That said, if some of the named names don’t react with a lawsuit against Mitchell (and hence MLB) for slander, I’d deem that damning…”

Again you mean to say “lible”, but this time from a more reputable source:

Lible
An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person’s reputation or standing in the community. Because libel is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. Libel is a form of defamation , as is slander (an untruthful statement that is spoken, but not published in writing or broadcast through the media).
36. CB December 13th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

MLB agreed to cover Mitchell for any liability that arises from the case.

He can be sued - but MLB will essentially defend him, pay for his lawyers and pay for any damages that may ensue if the player wins.

Essentially, if someone sues Mitchell it will be as if they are suing MLB.

That was what the indemnity clause was about - it was part of Mitchell’s agreement when he decided to take Selig’s offer to head up the investigation.
37. Deryck December 13th, 2007 at 6:48 pm

Admin Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:31 pm

of course it would be better if I could spell…
38. Steve December 13th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

Brian

This is what Roger’s lawyer put out

“Roger Clemens vehemently denies allegations in the Mitchell report that he used performance-enhancing steroids”

How is that a non denial denial? It seems like a denial to me.
39. mel December 13th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

From our lips to the Senate’s ears. Legislator’s calling for Selig & Fehr’s heads.
40. NYY December 13th, 2007 at 6:50 pm

If CLEMENS is so sure that he didn’t use steroids why didn’t he threaten with a lawsuit. This clearly shows that CLEMENS used steroids and is just trying to save his ass.
41. BWH December 13th, 2007 at 6:50 pm

Ugh - I try to correct the “slander” thing and I mis-spell “libel.” That noise you hear is me getting off my high horse.
42. Deryck December 13th, 2007 at 6:50 pm

I’m not sure Mitchell would be successfully sued except on the grounds of hearsay. I don’t know the legal aspects of that, but most/all of the information he was given was just a regurgitation of what he had been told, uncovered, or received from the federal prosecuters interviews.

I think the only conjectures he and his team created were towards MLB and who was at fault.
43. Steve December 13th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

You know if there ever was a guy who I thought might sue it would Clemens. He seems to be arrogant enough and competitive enough to do something like that.
44. Deryck December 13th, 2007 at 6:51 pm

“If CLEMENS is so sure that he didn’t use steroids why didn’t he threaten with a lawsuit. This clearly shows that CLEMENS used steroids and is just trying to save his ass.”

You’d make a better politician than a lawyer
45. mel December 13th, 2007 at 6:52 pm

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/868360/weird_this_happens_only_1_time_in_a_100_years/

Any Mets fans here? Did this really happen?
46. Deryck December 13th, 2007 at 6:53 pm

I wonder if Giants fans would vote Clemens into the Hall of Fame
47. mel December 13th, 2007 at 6:54 pm

Oops. A link might be helpful.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/12/13/congress.steroids.ap/index.html
48. Jimmy December 13th, 2007 at 6:55 pm

Sweet. I hope Roger sues MLB and Mitchell.
49. GL December 13th, 2007 at 6:56 pm

“People (especially my fellow Yanks fans) who write Pettitte off for being in the report need to be reminded that HGH was legal when he had his shots. And if they were for the purposes we’ve heard (assuming that info is true) then its no different than having a cortisone shot to heal an injury. Cortisone is also a steroid … was cortisone part of the investigation? If it was like that, then he wasn’t doing what Bonds or Giambi were doing.”

Thanks Ranting Guy!! How come no one is giving this attention?? This whole thing is starting to make me sick…
50. Ranting Guy December 13th, 2007 at 6:57 pm

I have to admit I’m surprised that the report isn’t as thorough as it could have been and (apparently) seems to focus on a limited number of sources or teams. And I’m surprised there hasn’t been an acknowledgment of this by its author(s) considering the potential for perceived conflicts of interest. Not even 24 hours ago I was one of several posters who honestly expected to be hearing about a report with a much broader cross-section of sources/info.
51. Mike R. December 13th, 2007 at 6:59 pm

BWH December 13th, 2007 at 6:46 pm

First, to be nitpicky, Mitchell would be sued for liable, not slander.

Second, MLB has agreed to pay for any/all legal costs and liabilities should Mitchell be sued.

Here’s a good article on the subject:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=3142722

Now it’s my turn. Not to be picky, but it’s libel, not liable.
52. JDnotDrew December 13th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

every1 saying when Pettitte took shots it was legal are wrong. MLB just started enforcing the rules on drugs in 2002, they were there long before that. Still hope Pettitte never used and will continue to support him and the Yankees.
53. Brian (Red Sox Fan) December 13th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

Steve …. look at that senetence in context. The Mitchell report is largely based on witness staements. The Clemens “denial” demonizes the Mitchell witness. Hence, the report conclusions can be questioned.

It’s sophistry, pure and simple. He has denied NOTHING. He has NOT answered the basic question, “Have you taken PEDs?”

P.S. You can bet that he won’t sue. Testimony under oath becomes a dicey proposition (see Bonds, Barry). He would be asked the core question (see above).
54. BWH December 13th, 2007 at 7:03 pm

Mike R- I realized my mistake and corrected it above. Still, it was rather stupid of me…
55. Ranting Guy December 13th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

Regardless, its no different than having a cortisone shot.
56. Steve December 13th, 2007 at 7:07 pm

David Justice is live on YES Network defending himself against these outrageous allegations. He says he never took steroids or HGH.
57. Steve December 13th, 2007 at 7:09 pm

Roger said through his lawyer that he denies the allegations that he used PED’s. You cant get any clearer than that.
58. Brian (Red Sox Fan) December 13th, 2007 at 7:12 pm

I’m clearly not bright enough to realize that. Give me a few more minutes to throw down another six-pack. My apologies to you, kind sir.
59. Jimmy December 13th, 2007 at 7:14 pm

Rogggaaahhh Clemenssssss is innocent.. Oh my gawwwd, Rogaaah Clemens is victim of another Red Sox scumbag… Oh my gooooodness, Roggaaaahhhh
60. Brian (Red Sox Fan) December 13th, 2007 at 7:30 pm

I’m flattered ….. someone else (who is throwing down his own six pack) has stolen my “name.”

Back when I was drinking, in college, I attained an English degree that enabled me to decipher arcane syntax. The Clemens’ “denial” is no such thing. He has demonized the witness and obfuscated the basic issue.

P.S. Do you really think that Clemens is PED free? The weight gain? better at 44 than 34? the retirement sabbaticals to avoid random testing? are you really that naive?

Have another beer yourself. Happy Holidays.
61. GRRRRRRRRRR December 13th, 2007 at 7:30 pm

When all is said and done, Mitchell and Selig will look like fools and their reputations will be the ones to take a big hit on this.

The Players Union is gearing up for a lot of action.

“He is left with no meaningful way to combat what he strongly contends are totally false allegations. He has not been charged with anything, he will not be charged with anything and yet he is being tried in the court of public opinion with no recourse. That is totally wrong.” This was from the statement that Roger’s lawyer made, so you are wrong Brian the Red Sox idiot. That statement right there is a denial that the allegations have any weight.

This whole thing was a joke, and it will show that George Mitchell is joke as well.

The lawyers of all the players named in such an insensitive manner with little regard to many such being hearsay will all be busy over the next few weeks.

Get the popcorn ready because the real show is about to begin. With the reputations of these players being damaged by this, with the flimsy evidence, it shows that Mitchell was just doing this as he did with Ireland. Just looking to make a name for himself and garner credit that he did not deserve. If he, acting in any capacity as a judge, were to get such weak evidence in a court, were to accept it and proceed with the case, he would be out of a job.

There was no real attempt to cover all of baseball, this hinges on NY primarily. Mitchell is a tool and has lost what little respect people might have had for him.
62. hmmm December 13th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

“It’s sophistry, pure and simple. He has denied NOTHING. He has NOT answered the basic question, “Have you taken PEDs?””

“Roger Clemens vehemently denies allegations in the Mitchell report that he used performance-enhancing steroids”

WTF are you talking about?
63. Jimmy December 13th, 2007 at 7:40 pm

“Back when I was drinking, in college, I attained an English degree that enabled me to decipher arcane syntax. The Clemens’ “denial” is no such thing. He has demonized the witness and obfuscated the basic issue.”

Brian, since you attained an English degree, wouldn’t you know how to use commas correctly? Shouldn’t it be “Back when I was drinking in college, I attained…”

Thanks for your abrupt response.
64. Jimmy December 13th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

Hmmm,

Brian is just a bit confused. He’s throwing words out there that he probably doesn’t even know the meaning of. Roger denied the use of any PEDs, however, Brian is just like any other Red Sox fan…a moron.
65. zeke December 13th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

Do you all seriously believe Roger Clemens didn’t use steroids or HGH? Really? He grew in size since Toronto, suddenly improved his lagging performance from his last years in Boston. I’m a lifelong Yankee fan, but get real.

The liar liar pants on fire is always the defense used to refute a witness immediately after the attack their credibility.

Clemens cheated. The names in the report are the ones that Mitchell’s team felt they had proof on. They just didn’t have proof on the others - like Pudge Rodriguez,…

Here’s a good question - right now what does Roger have to lose LYING about not taking steroids? He’s not in court so there is no perjury.

I feel bad about Pettite - I’d like to think he wasn’t a hardcore user like Clemens and just did it to recoup as the report suggested. I’d also like to think that his statement is just to hold time while he decides whether he will fess up to a small mistake or take the Clemens route.
66. Ken Clay stole my identification and credit cards December 13th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

Say Goodbye to the Hall of Fame, juicer. We all knew Clemens was juicing. He has shamed the Yankee uniform (just like Giambi).[/quote]

Admin Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:31 pm

Here’s a breakdown of Alex Rodriguez’s new contract:

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/

Signing bonus: $2 million now, $1 million every Jan. 15 from 2009-13, $3 million on Jan. 15, 2014. Total of $10 million.

Salaries:
2008: $27 million
2009: $32 million
2010: $32 million
2011: $31 million
2012: $29 million
2013: $28 million
2014: $25 million
2015: $21 million
2016: $20 million
2017: $20 million

HR bonus: $6 million for tying Willie Mays, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron and Barry Bonds. $6 million for setting the all-time record.

Total guaranteed salary: $275 million.

With bonus payments: $305 million.

Admin Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:32 pm

#

hey, atleast hes not on the list right?
# Yankee Sean December 13th, 2007 at 4:50 pm

fancy
# raymagnetic (SANTANA IS LEGEND) December 13th, 2007 at 4:51 pm

Makes sense that he’ll be getting less dough the older he gets. Looks like when he’s most productive he’ll earn the most money.

I don’t have a problem with it.
# Jeff NJ December 13th, 2007 at 4:51 pm

2004?
# Mike R. December 13th, 2007 at 4:51 pm

I like the idea of front loading the contract. it just makes more sense. It gives us the best shot of being under the cap in a number of years.
# Sean December 13th, 2007 at 4:52 pm

Yes, that wouldn’t be good if he was on the list too
# Jeff NJ December 13th, 2007 at 4:52 pm

Isn’t the last $6M actually for breaking the all time record? It may not be Bonds at that time. It could be Manny or someone else.
# trapper700 December 13th, 2007 at 4:53 pm

2014, not 2004, right?
# jay destro December 13th, 2007 at 4:54 pm

no opt out clause I imagine
# raymagnetic (SANTANA IS LEGEND) December 13th, 2007 at 4:55 pm

Isn’t the last $6M actually for breaking the all time record? It may not be Bonds at that time. It could be Manny or someone else.

Manny’s not even at 500 yet is he? There’s no way he’ll break the record. The only current player who might get to 700 before A-Rod is Jr.
# Jones December 13th, 2007 at 4:56 pm

holy sh*t! that’s a lot of coin!
# whozat December 13th, 2007 at 4:57 pm

“It may not be Bonds at that time. It could be Manny or someone else.”

Um…given ARod’s ahead of Manny, I doubt it’ll be Manny. Sosa’s the next closest, and I think Alex might be after him? Or maybe Thome or someone? Among active players, that is.
# SAndMan December 13th, 2007 at 4:58 pm

When do they let Andy Pettitte off the 40-man we need to make room for SAntana:)
# whozat December 13th, 2007 at 4:58 pm

“The only current player who might get to 700 before A-Rod is Jr.”

Oh, right! He’ll get to 600 next year.
# Russell W December 13th, 2007 at 5:01 pm

I’m not so upset about Pettitte and believe he had a legitimate reason. Sheffield, Giambi, Clemens - like we didn’t know? Justice was a jerk, Villone?, Knoblauch… not a bad day for the Yankees. Thank you ARod for not showing up on this report.
# Jeff NJ December 13th, 2007 at 5:02 pm

Granted A Rod would have to go on a multi year slump for Manny to catch him, but it is a possibility. I guess maybe Thome too. I don’t think Sosa or Griffey are getting there.
# Jeff NJ December 13th, 2007 at 5:03 pm

No mention of one Derek Jeter on the list. Funny how every talk show commentator used Jeter as the “what would you do if his name was on the list” discussion fodder.
# rodg12 December 13th, 2007 at 5:06 pm

Was Justice implicated as using or did he just talk to Mitchell??
# UtilityMan December 13th, 2007 at 5:07 pm

Whew!!!I am sooo glad Cairo wasnt on that list!!!

Villone I am surprised at.

BOSTON DAVE
You said no way DeSalvo gets tossed on Tuesday…..Well he got tossed!
# Ray December 13th, 2007 at 5:10 pm

The ALL STEROID TEAM - Unidentified Suspected Players
C - Piazza & Pudge & Varitek
1B- McGwire & Sexson
2B- Kent & Vidro
SS- Garciapara
3B- Pujols & Beltre
OF- Sosa & S. Finley & S. Green
OF- Albert Belle & Guerrero
OF- Brady Anderson & M. Ramirez & L. Walker
DH- D. Ortiz
SP- Schilling
SP- A. Burnett
SP- Mulder
SP- Hampton & B. Colon
SP- Chuck Finley
RP- Dotel
CL- Foulke & Mantei & Nen
# gayle December 13th, 2007 at 5:10 pm

Justice talked, then was implicated then didnt talk

see below link

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071213/SPT04/71213013/1071/rss08
# S.o.S.27 December 13th, 2007 at 5:10 pm

Why hasnt Henn been tossed? He shouldnt be able to sniff the bigs again after last years performances.
# Clay Bellinger December 13th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

I love how Schilling is on that list. That’s pure hatred.
# mel December 13th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

sos,

Because he’s a lefty. I see him and Edwar living on borrowed time.
# Thomas December 13th, 2007 at 5:12 pm

Glad no opt-out. I think if a GM gives any player an opt-out, they should be fired!
# Ray December 13th, 2007 at 5:13 pm

I saw Schilling in Baltimore before he grew into the roided up stature he is now. Perhaps it is conditioning! Perhaps he has another source.
# S.o.S.27 December 13th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

Question?

Why does a player need performance bonuses when he is the highest paid player in the game. Arent the Yankees paying him the most in baseball to put up numbers? Am I missing something here?
# mel December 13th, 2007 at 5:16 pm

source of that Adonis-like physique:

DUNKIN’ DONUTS
# S.o.S.27 December 13th, 2007 at 5:20 pm

mel,
I agree on Edwar. Everytime I saw him pitch he either struck someone out or they blasted his 80’s fastball deep.
I see him as a Dave Kingman of pitching(too young to see him,remember im 3 years past 30 not that old). But a hit or miss,nothing in between(feast or famine).

Henn is a wasted spot on the roster. I would prefer to throw a righty vs. a lefty than put him in there. Lets not do like last year and put a lefty in the pen no mattter how innefective he is(Villone). If your best pen is all righties than righties it is.
# kd December 13th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

Wow. A long meeting and a lot happened.

This report is mostly based on the testimony of two NY sources, so the east coast and Yankee bias is pretty evident. It’s sad that people will view the list as definitive, it’s only what he could find in 20 months. If a players name does not appear, it does not mean that he is clear. It just means that he didn’t but from the Mets clubbie.
# Laura December 13th, 2007 at 5:25 pm

It also means that he was smart enough to pay with cash. How dumb are these guys giving the steroid seller a check with their names on it? That is also why Clemens and Pettite can deny their involvement. There’s no paper trail.
# Brian M December 13th, 2007 at 5:28 pm

This is after leaving $21M on the table? Really?

Every team in baseball had already said they couldn’t afford him. He came back, cap in hand ready eat the lost Texas money and accept a lesser deal and this is what they sorted out in 2 conversations?

Now I’m glad he is back. I’m glad he is on a multiyear deal and I know that for a guy who will possibly win the next 5 MVPs you will have to pay.

But people are worth what the market will pay. No other team could have come within $100M of this offer. So we overpaid big style. The bonuses are basically for milestones he’ll only miss if his arms fall off in the next couple of yrs. So it IS a £305M contract not $275M. If Hank had said 8 yrs and 230M with no bonuses, ARod would have had to sign.

He could pass Ruth, Aaron and Bonds in the same yr. Earning $24M in bonuses on top off a $20M+ base salary. Factor in luxury tax and that season could cost $60M+ for ARod alone. Yikes.

I think he’ll add some revenue for the team. but the Yankees are not in danger of playing in front of empty stadiums. And if he hadn’t resigned then the money would had be reassigned to other big names such as Santana or Texiera who would have big fan appeal especially once they are brought into the increased spotlight of NY. I mean ARod in SF would not be the same story as ARod in NY.

For those who consider Pavano the biggest blunder of recent times, remember that was $40M total spread over 4 yrs, and most will have been recouped from insurance. While we can all resent his attitude and the money he is getting paid, his contract barely shows on the radar compared to those of Giambi and ARod, and with the insurance money, his signing hasn’t really impacted the teams ability to sign other players nearly as much as Giambi’s deal, or the crazy overpaying of ARod (and to a lesser extent Rivera) this summer.

The Yanks championship teams had some big contracts in there, but the team won because there weren’t any BAD contracts. Mo’s 3rd yr will be bad - was there really a big market for him? - (although I cant grudge him it since he has been comparatively underpaid recently). ARod’s last 2 -3 will be bad, is first 5 yrs will be good, but overpaid. And big bad contracts can’t be traded trying Cashman’s hands for the future.

As I said, I’m glad he is back, same with Mo, Posada and Pettitte. But for god sake let Cashman negotiate the deals cos Hanks answer seems to be to overpay everyone by 25%.

If ARod and Mo had walked, the teams short term prospects would be hurt, but as much as it pains me to say so, we may have had a better long term chance, esp when draft picks are factored in.

We can afford some big contracts, but cheap kids get expensive quicker than people realise so lets get the purse strings back under control, as Cashman has said the Yanks do have money, but the don’t have a bottomless pit.

Admin Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:09 pm

Ha! Look who else got caught

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/

One of the players implicated in the Mitchell Report was Toronto infielder Howie Clark.

He’s the guy who dropped the pop-up when Alex Rodriguez yelled at him in Toronto back in May. Clark allegedly received shipments of human growth hormone.

So Howie Clark gets ratted out by Kirk Radomski on the same day A-Rod gets $275 million from the Yankees. Alex had the first laugh and the last, it seems.

But beware publicity-seeking Jose Canseco. Denied admission to Mitchell’s press conference, Canseco went on Fox News and said he “couldn’t believe” A-Rod wasn’t in the report. In other news, Jose wants to write another book.

Howie Clark? lmao..

Admin Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:43 pm

Andy Petitte - Implications
EPGScott Post #1: 07:24 pm Quote | Report Violation
Total Posts: 627
With AP on the Mitchell report and the chance he might be suspended would this give the Yankees the opening to jump back in on Santana. It would allow Hank to contact the Twins and save face as he can state he is unsure how the AP situation will play out.

Wonder what you guys think?
smootsmacktalk Post #2: 07:30 pm Quote | Report Violation
Total Posts: 1677
I've spent most of my day talking to people in and around baseball about this issue, and the one over-riding belief among myself and others is that there is NO WAY any of these guys are going to be punished. Beyond the most obvious impediment that is the flimsy evidence, Selig would be doing nothing short of declaring what amounts to a nuclear war against the players union... unilateral action against players? Not against this union.

Sponsored content

Yankees 4 Championship is LEGIT