Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:20 am
On to Lambeau
http://giants.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/13/on-to-lambeau/
The only question you need to ask about the Giants now is this:
Why not? Why can’t they beat the Packers and go to Glendale for the Super Bowl?(and wouldn’t they deserve a week in the desert if they could make Brett Favre eat snow?)?
Anyway, who would have thought that Eli Manning would be playing on championship weekend and not Peyton?
Archie Manning was in Indy today and his wife, Olivia, was here at Texas Stadium. I spoke with her briefly, and she mentioned that a friend had told Archie after Peyton’s Super Bowl win last February that now “it’s Eli’s turn.”
That’s what I wrote about in my column for The Journal News and LoHud.com tomorrow.
Sorry for the lack of blogs after the fourth quarter. The internet service here in the Big-D pressroom kept going out. Many, many newspapers nearly had deadline disasters.
I know that I predicted Cowboys 31, Giants 17. And surely, if you had told me that Marion Barber would have more than 100 yards rushing in the first half and that Tony Romo would have a touchdown drive that nearly ate up the entire second quarter, I would have thought that pick was golden. I also said the Bucs would beat the Giants, so you Giants fans should be hoping that I pick the Packers next week.
I also said last week that the NFC was a wide-open opportunity for the Giants, that there was no really elite team.
They just beat the best, the first team to knock out the NFC No. 1 seed in the divisional round in 20 years. They just won their ninth straight road game.
So why not the Giants now? Why not?
1. Del 85 January 13th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Hey Rick, the conductor says there is no more
room for front-runners on the bandwagon.
You are amazing. Not really.
What was it Joseph Welch said to Joe McCarthy?
Oh yeah…That’s what he said.
2. stuart January 13th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Hopefully they are making believers for many people// Th Giant D made a big stop, that has not happened in a long long time.
great win.. Reeses draft looks phenomenal;;; bradshaw, boss, smith, ross, etc… what a damn draft!!!!!!!!!!!!
3. ED January 14th, 2008 at 8:06 am
The next one will a test for Eli’s hands. Can he control the ball at 4 degrees.
4. Russ January 14th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Hey Ed – I think the temps will test EVERY players hand(s)..no one is immune from the cold.
http://giants.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/13/on-to-lambeau/
The only question you need to ask about the Giants now is this:
Why not? Why can’t they beat the Packers and go to Glendale for the Super Bowl?(and wouldn’t they deserve a week in the desert if they could make Brett Favre eat snow?)?
Anyway, who would have thought that Eli Manning would be playing on championship weekend and not Peyton?
Archie Manning was in Indy today and his wife, Olivia, was here at Texas Stadium. I spoke with her briefly, and she mentioned that a friend had told Archie after Peyton’s Super Bowl win last February that now “it’s Eli’s turn.”
That’s what I wrote about in my column for The Journal News and LoHud.com tomorrow.
Sorry for the lack of blogs after the fourth quarter. The internet service here in the Big-D pressroom kept going out. Many, many newspapers nearly had deadline disasters.
I know that I predicted Cowboys 31, Giants 17. And surely, if you had told me that Marion Barber would have more than 100 yards rushing in the first half and that Tony Romo would have a touchdown drive that nearly ate up the entire second quarter, I would have thought that pick was golden. I also said the Bucs would beat the Giants, so you Giants fans should be hoping that I pick the Packers next week.
I also said last week that the NFC was a wide-open opportunity for the Giants, that there was no really elite team.
They just beat the best, the first team to knock out the NFC No. 1 seed in the divisional round in 20 years. They just won their ninth straight road game.
So why not the Giants now? Why not?
1. Del 85 January 13th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Hey Rick, the conductor says there is no more
room for front-runners on the bandwagon.
You are amazing. Not really.
What was it Joseph Welch said to Joe McCarthy?
Oh yeah…That’s what he said.
2. stuart January 13th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Hopefully they are making believers for many people// Th Giant D made a big stop, that has not happened in a long long time.
great win.. Reeses draft looks phenomenal;;; bradshaw, boss, smith, ross, etc… what a damn draft!!!!!!!!!!!!
3. ED January 14th, 2008 at 8:06 am
The next one will a test for Eli’s hands. Can he control the ball at 4 degrees.
4. Russ January 14th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Hey Ed – I think the temps will test EVERY players hand(s)..no one is immune from the cold.
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:22 am
Okay?
Ken Rosenthal says a lot of things. Most of them are bullshit. The Jays have zero chance, with that pathetic offense, to finish above the Yankees. AJ Burnett is still a humongous injury risk, and you really think Dustin McGowan has the ability to pick up the slack? Nevermind that their bullpen isn't really any better than the Yankees', and they're more likely to finish 4th behind the Devil Rays than 2nd above the Yankees.
Frankly, I'm glad the Yankees are being continually underrated and counted out. Makes it that much nicer when they reach 93+ wins yet again.
Posted by: Andrew [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 10:28 AM
Well, I shouldn't say that about their bullpen. It was darn good last season. And yet, they still finished with 83 wins. Now that Troy Glaus is gone, it makes them even worse. The only way the Jays have gone this offseason is down. Rosenthal is basically saying the Yankees have a chance to finish with 82 wins. Woopdeedoo, so does everyone.
Posted by: Andrew [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 10:30 AM
Highly doubtful imo as Toronto will not pitch as well and the Yankees not as poorly. Toronto starters pitched about 80 innings more and the Yankees relievers had to pitch 80 innings more. With the young Yankees starters pitching more innings and a better pen that does not walk batter the Yankees will be easily better.
Also if Girardi managed last year the extra 80 innings the pen pitched would have been divided up between Britton and Ramirez where as Torre ignored them.
Posted by: dan l [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 12:24 PM
One time, this other guy on some sports radio show said that Derek Jeter was gay. How do you feel if that's true. Another time, some baseball player said that there were no such things as dinosaurs. How do you feel about that?
Lots of people say lots of speculative things. Here's how I feel about all of them, let's see what the evidence says, then I'll start worrying about it.
Posted by: SteveB [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 12:45 PM
If, as is now being reported by ESPN, the Yankees have again pulled their offer for Santana (and Hank sticks to that position), the Yankees will have less expectations and be under less pressure than have been since 1996, yet they have more than enough talent to win the WS.
So let the media predict whatever they want. The present and the future are so bright, you gotta wear shades.
Posted by: Rich [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 01:09 PM
Frankly, I'm glad the Yankees are being continually underrated and counted out. Makes it that much nicer when they reach 93+ wins yet again.
**********************8
By the same token, an 86 win season and third place finish will be just as nice.
Why exactly is it assumed that the Blue Jay starters will be worse while the Yankee starters will inevitably improve? The fact is that the young Jays pitchers SHOWED that they can compete in the AL East. Just because the Yankee prospects are uber-hailed doesn't make them better, or less likely to have growing pains. If Burnett and Holiday stay healthy, there is no reason why the Blue Jay rotation won't be as good next year, and if BJ Ryan is healthy, the bullpen will be at least as good (assuming that some of their middle relievers regress).
Glaus being gone hurts them? Have you taken a look at Scott Rolen ever? If Rolen regains his power stroke, he's better than Glaus. If he only gets his average back up, he's better than Glaus. Every time he takes the field, he's better than Glaus.
Reasons why the Yankees could finish behind the Jays:
Piss-poor set-up men
age catching up to Pettitte, Mussina, Matsui
continued suckiness of Damon and Giambi
growing pains for the youngsters - or simply pitch limits + bad setup men
You don't think the Yankees are due for a bad season? You're sure the "can't miss" pitchers will be instant stars?
If you can't see ANY chance for the Blue Jays to slip ahead, how do you drive with pinstripe glasses?
Posted by: DanTheRedSoxMan [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 03:10 PM
So basically, if all goes right for the Jays, and if all goes wrong for the Yankees, the Jays have a shot of finishing ahead.
Yeah, that's reasonable. By that reasoning, the Rays could win the World Series. Nice to see how 'the other side' thinks.
Posted by: Andrew [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 03:17 PM
I had hoped Dan would get run over by some drunk Pats fan celebrating their win. Didn't happen.
Anyway, if Ken -- who does talk a lot of BS and sure loves to kill the Yankees -- actually said "the Jays have a chance, but not a great chance, to finish above the Yankees in the standings this year" -- well, brave prognosticator he! That statement is meaningless. It's like if I said, "I have a chance, but not a great chance, to marry a supermodel." If you qualify a chance by saying it's not a great chance -- that it probably won't happen -- then you can apply it to anything.
So big deal. The Rays have a chance, but not a great chance, of winning 85 games. The Marlins have a chance, but not a great chance, of winning the World Series. Rosenthal has a chance, but not a great chance, of not looking like a total dweeb when he hunkers down in the camera well on Fox games.
Posted by: baileywalk [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 03:19 PM
I can see the BJ's finishing ahead of the Sox, but not the Yankees.
Posted by: Rich [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 14, 2008 06:54 PM
This is oh so charming. I'm glad there are at least a few people making sense. Or at least paying attention to other teams. The departure of Glaus will hardly make the Jays hit worse. Fact is, Glaus was redundant because almost all the Jays kill lefties. Rolen is better against right-handed pitching, so he gives the lineup better balance-- and with the groundball pitchers the Jays have, his D will be huge.
It would be shocking if Wells and Overbay didn't rebound from their injuries, and Thomas would be hard pressed to be as bad in the first half as he was in '07. Oh yes, they'll be better.
And please realize that the hype deficit between the Jays' young players and the Sox and Yankees is monumental. People would be going nuts for Toronto's young talent if those guys were playing down there.
Anyway, I'm not saying that I think the Jays will finish ahead of the Yankees. I pretty much don't. But the thought of it is hardly a joke.
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:25 am
From a Cowboys Fan
How low does a Cowboy fan has to get to beg for mercy, especially to the Green Bay Packers fan.........Boy I seen it all. I believe the packers do not understand that theDallas fan were the same people that talk trash about your team. Saying Romo was the man!!!! I am sorry but how can you guys even let this fools, come here like a Hippocrate and pretend he really care about your team.
Dallas cowboys fan think they are the AMERICAN team ,please!!!! If I were Green Bay I wouldn't even answer to that clown.
Giants vs Green Bay boy that sound better than Cowboys vs Green Bay
Peace !!!!!
How low does a Cowboy fan has to get to beg for mercy, especially to the Green Bay Packers fan.........Boy I seen it all. I believe the packers do not understand that theDallas fan were the same people that talk trash about your team. Saying Romo was the man!!!! I am sorry but how can you guys even let this fools, come here like a Hippocrate and pretend he really care about your team.
Dallas cowboys fan think they are the AMERICAN team ,please!!!! If I were Green Bay I wouldn't even answer to that clown.
Giants vs Green Bay boy that sound better than Cowboys vs Green Bay
Peace !!!!!
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:30 am
An early look at three matchups to watch - Giants vs Packers
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/insider/news/story?id=3195203
Giants RB Brandon Jacobs vs. Packers LB Nick Barnett
Jacobs is a big, powerful running back who can wear down defenses and will be counted on to help take the pressure off QB Eli Manning. He will be utilized heavily in the Giants' inside zone-running game. Barnett is the key clog in the middle in the Packers' 4-3 defense. He can cover a lot of ground within the box and is also an effective tackler out in space.
Giants WR Plaxico Burress vs. Physical Packers CB Charles Woodson
Burress is easily the Giants No. 1 wideout and Manning's favorite downfield target. He is a dangerous receiver with size, long arms and the ability to outleap any defender in the NFL in the Giants' vertical passing attack. Woodson is an experienced corner who has played at a very high level throughout the season. He is a good bump-and-run corner who can be physical and has good man-to-man coverage skills.
RDE Osi Umenyiora vs. LT Chad Clifton
Umenyiora is a dynamic pass-rusher who must be accounted for on every snap. He is very explosive off the ball with exceptional speed and the quickness to bend the edge and close on the QB Brett Favre. Clifton is an experienced player who is a better pass-blocker than run-blocker. He must do a great job in protecting Favre's backside in critical passing situations.
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:36 am
An early look at three matchups to watch - Giants vs Packers
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/insider/news/story?id=3195203
Giants RB Brandon Jacobs vs. Packers LB Nick Barnett
Jacobs is a big, powerful running back who can wear down defenses and will be counted on to help take the pressure off QB Eli Manning. He will be utilized heavily in the Giants' inside zone-running game. Barnett is the key clog in the middle in the Packers' 4-3 defense. He can cover a lot of ground within the box and is also an effective tackler out in space.
Giants WR Plaxico Burress vs. Physical Packers CB Charles Woodson
Burress is easily the Giants No. 1 wideout and Manning's favorite downfield target. He is a dangerous receiver with size, long arms and the ability to outleap any defender in the NFL in the Giants' vertical passing attack. Woodson is an experienced corner who has played at a very high level throughout the season. He is a good bump-and-run corner who can be physical and has good man-to-man coverage skills.
RDE Osi Umenyiora vs. LT Chad Clifton
Umenyiora is a dynamic pass-rusher who must be accounted for on every snap. He is very explosive off the ball with exceptional speed and the quickness to bend the edge and close on the QB Brett Favre. Clifton is an experienced player who is a better pass-blocker than run-blocker. He must do a great job in protecting Favre's backside in critical passing situations.
Go Giants beat Packers.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/insider/news/story?id=3195203
Giants RB Brandon Jacobs vs. Packers LB Nick Barnett
Jacobs is a big, powerful running back who can wear down defenses and will be counted on to help take the pressure off QB Eli Manning. He will be utilized heavily in the Giants' inside zone-running game. Barnett is the key clog in the middle in the Packers' 4-3 defense. He can cover a lot of ground within the box and is also an effective tackler out in space.
Giants WR Plaxico Burress vs. Physical Packers CB Charles Woodson
Burress is easily the Giants No. 1 wideout and Manning's favorite downfield target. He is a dangerous receiver with size, long arms and the ability to outleap any defender in the NFL in the Giants' vertical passing attack. Woodson is an experienced corner who has played at a very high level throughout the season. He is a good bump-and-run corner who can be physical and has good man-to-man coverage skills.
RDE Osi Umenyiora vs. LT Chad Clifton
Umenyiora is a dynamic pass-rusher who must be accounted for on every snap. He is very explosive off the ball with exceptional speed and the quickness to bend the edge and close on the QB Brett Favre. Clifton is an experienced player who is a better pass-blocker than run-blocker. He must do a great job in protecting Favre's backside in critical passing situations.
Go Giants beat Packers.
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:40 am
Yankees Pull Santana Offer
UPDATE, 1-14-08 at 10:28pm: Hank says "there's still a little back and forth" between the Yanks and Twins regarding Santana. Ugh.
It's not Cashman it's Steinbrenner who doesn't think they need Santana. But look at their options, they don't. The pitching isn't the greatest, but their offense features superhuman slugger Alex Rodriguez.
Posted by: boston | January 14, 2008 at 04:00 PM
Good point boston. Even if they trade Hughes, they still have Joba, Kennedy, Horne, Sanchez, Brackman. I mean give me a break. This isnt the 41 year old Randy Johnson available here. Its Johan Santana, the pitcher we HOPE Hughes turns out to be. Makes absolutely no sense how they are not goin after Santana. Also, the yankees have at least 50-60 million comin off the payroll after next year so they could restructure Santanas contract. Oh and the idiot Steinbrenner saqys we dont care if he goes to Boston. What a joke because if he does the Yankees wont see another division title at least for 5-6 years.
Posted by: Joeboy29 | January 14, 2008 at 04:26 PM
Rotation's not good? What's your guess for an aggregate ERA for the rotation, and where do you think that would rank in MLB?
nrmax is right. It is not hard to make the case that Hughes by himself is a much more valuable property than Santana at this point. It gets more complicated when you have the Yankees' financial resources but there is no doubt that Hughes will be a bigger bargain in his pre-FA years than Santana will be this year.
How much is it worth to have Santana? Hard to say. And don't act like he's the missing piece in their postseason failures either - he's been nothing special in the playoffs.
Posted by: bobo | January 14, 2008 at 04:30 PM
This is the smartest move for the Yankees. Cashman has worked his tail off to compile this kind of young talent. Don't be surprised to see the yankees not catch that wild card next year. however in '09 once they work up hughes and chamberlains innings, this rotation will be a pretty dominant one. People who say Mussina is a great 5, i disagree. mussina has always had alot of run support. he never has had a 20 game winning season and overall is probably the most overrated pitcher in the Major Leagues right now. Mussina doesn't belong a step above triple A for this season. I would definitely work up Kennedy's innings this season and maybe interchange his starts with kei igawa as all he really has to do is bring the ball down in the zone. The yankees will not have a good '08 year but '09 will be a tough team to beat. their offense is pretty set in stone for the next few years and though they still have a weak bullpen, perhaps mussina would be good for this position? otherwise they will need joba and hughes to throw at least 6.1-6.2 innings per game and mariano will see alot more usage this season, and i dont see that happening.
Posted by: Santana/Beckett FTW | January 14, 2008 at 04:50 PM
No Santana, no postseason for the yankees this year. Period.
Posted by: PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ | January 14, 2008 at 04:51 PM
And Jehu i dunno what sources ur using that the sox dont have great pitching either. hands down the sox without santana are still the best pitching team in baseball. their rotation hasn't changed. they lead the league in pitching last season. why would you think this year will be any different. if anything they will be better. you have a more experienced Lester and Bucholz, a hall of famer and leader in Schilling, an ace in beckett, a potential ace in Matsuzaka whos only going to get better as he adjusts to the MLB. At the back end you got Wakefield who posted what like a 2.1-2.20 era for the whole first half of the year last season? granted he fell apart in the second half but he was still very impressive. he was also injured in the second half so the knuckler wasn't moving as well. Their bullpen also one of the best in baseball. Papelbon (unlike mariano or most other closers) is very comfortable giving 2 innings of work, Okajima is the best setup man in baseball. I just really dont know what the hell you are referring to. lol
Posted by: Santana/Beckett FTW | January 14, 2008 at 05:01 PM
Without Santana, they don't have a chance again BOTH Cleveland and Detroit (and Boston, who I admit are better right now)? I beg to differ.
Chances are good that they'll be better than last year. That's a damn good shot at making the playoffs, I think.
Posted by: bobo | January 14, 2008 at 05:09 PM
I think they could win the wildcard with that rotation and lineup. But, they would need to add something to win in the playoffs. They don't have that true ace for the postseason.
Posted by: brian2706 | January 14, 2008 at 05:28 PM
"This guy is hands down best in the game, and the Yankees only want to give up one of their three top prospects, and then one of Cano or Cabrera? How cheap are these guys that they can't give Minnesota a fair deal for the best pitcher in the game?"
Please site a precedent for a "fair deal" for a pitcher in his walk year. A 31 year old CYA winning David Cone was traded by KC to Toronto for Chris Stynes, David Sinnes and Tony Medrano. He was then traded by Totonto to NY for Marty Jansen, Jason Jarvis and Mike Gordon. There's a reason you've never heard of those guys. Awesome as Santana is, nobody is worth more than what has already been offered for him (by at least two teams) plus the contract it will take to get him to agree to the trade.
Posted by: mac_1103 | January 14, 2008 at 07:23 PM
"NJM, just to play devils advocate, would it help Joba's case as a reliever if he is the alternative to a guy like Farns blowing games once or twice a week?"
There are approximately 27 weeks during the baseball season. Farnsworth didn't cost the Yankees anything even close to that number of games. I'm sure there was some exaggeration intended in your post, but it sort of underscores how exaggerated relief pitching is in general, atleast relative to starting pitching. There is almost no situation where I would take a guy capable of throwing 200 effective IPs and intentionally chop that in half. If Mariano could have handled starting with anything resembling the same level of domination he shows out of the pen (which his 1995 and minor league results suggest he couldn't), I would have much rather had him start. There's a reason, usually either lack of stamina or lack of repertoire, that most relievers are failed starters. Starters are much more valuable.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | January 14, 2008 at 07:55 PM
You want good relievers out of no where examples?
Joakim Soria: rule 5 pick!
JJ Putz: mediocare until 06 .. at the age of 29 and after 3 years in the majors he suddenly went from decent reliever to super star closer.
Bobby Jenks: claimed OFF THE FUCKING WAIVER
Takashi Saito : declined former star in the NPB. pitched like Mariano Rivera ever since landing in the US
Hideki Okajima: never was the biggest star in Japan. pitched lights out for Boston.
you want the ultimate example of a great reliver out of nowhere? how about THE FIRST EVER HALL OF FAME RP Hoyt Wilhelm ? HE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE MAJORS UNTIL AGE 29!!!
YES good RPs can very very often pop out of abosalute nowhere if you just use the right approach.
Posted by: Yu Hsing Chen | January 14, 2008 at 09:09 PM
"I think they could win the wildcard with that rotation and lineup. But, they would need to add something to win in the playoffs. They don't have that true ace for the postseason."
Another myth.
Years where the WS winner had an established "true ace" (we can fight over what that means too) who pitched well ("ace-like") in that postseason:
2007, 2006, 2001, 1995
Years where this wasn't true:
2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2000, 1999 (MAYBE Cone), 1998 (again maybe Cone), 1997, 1996
And to further support the point, how about all the guys who would be considered "true aces" and didn't pitch well in the postseason.
I thought everyone knew this by now, but the postseason is a complete crapshoot. Winning 11 games in October means so little in the grand scheme of things.
Sure, an ace is nice, and I am not foolish enough to say that the Yankees wouldn't be better with him. And if he would guarantee a WS win, then yeah, you probably trade Hughes for him. But of course that's not the case.
Posted by: bobo | January 14, 2008 at 09:31 PM
pitching is fine - Wang, Pettite, Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy/Mussina - top 5 rotation in MLB. Lineup still top 3 in MLB. Cashman needs to shore up 1st base defense - use some of the pitching depth (Jeff Karstens, Horne, etc.) to get a quality/defensive 1st baseman. Team should win 92-97 games.
Posted by: corpreorg | January 14, 2008 at 09:42 PM
Folks here should enjoy this:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlEoVVUayl.hqM6Tzab2E8wRvLYF?slug=ap-yankees-santana&prov=ap&type=lgns
TAMPA, Fla. (AP)—New York Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner has not closed the door on a trade for Minnesota Twins left-hander Johan Santana.
...
Steinbrenner said reports that the Yankees recently withdrew a formal offer to the Twins are not true.
“There wasn’t an official offer anyway. You can’t withdraw something that wasn’t there,” Steinbrenner said. “There was no official offer on the table at this time.”
Posted by: mac_1103 | January 14, 2008 at 09:50 PM
He is the best pitcher in baseball. Prospects our prospects. I cannot believe some of these comments I am reading. A pither like Santana, who is still in his prime, comes around once a decade if that. He is a already a first ballot hall of famer. Having him on your staff completely changes a playoff series, and you probobly would not have to worry about a big losing streak with him pitching every 5 days. It is amazing he is available! If he were on a big market team, he would never be available at any cost! I have watched him time after time shutdown my White Sox year after year. Trust me this guy is worth all of that and a bag of chips.
Posted by: PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ | January 14, 2008 at 10:33 PM
"A pither like Santana, who is still in his prime, comes around once a decade if that. He is a already a first ballot hall of famer."
So you are telling me a guy with 93 wins is a fist ballot hall of famer right now? Say he loses his arm tomorrow, in 5 years is he going to the HOF. Yea, you could say that the BBWA could show some compassion to him, but they didn't show any to Jim Abbot. You can make a case about a guy like Sandy Koufax who retried early, but Koufax was an absolute beast even though he only won 165 games. Santana is no Koufax though, if he continues to pitch the way he is now for 10 more years, he will be most likely the greatest pitcher to ever step onto the field. But, let us ot over exaggerate him anymore than everyone already has.
Posted by: bravesrule14 | January 14, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Agreed, the Yankees should be the friggin' Yankees, add Kennedy to the deal, and get it done.
Santana, Wang, Pettite, Chamberlin, Mussina
Posted by: jrfukudome | January 14, 2008 at 10:49 PM
If I was a Yankees fan I would be scared to make the playoffs this year. The combination of all these young pitchers, Girardi with his questionable history with young pitchers (albeit overblown) and the pressure to win could spell disaster for the long run. Who really wants to be the one to explain to Hank that you have to start Igawa over Chamberlain while you are fighting for your playoff life?
Posted by: walkoffblast | January 14, 2008 at 10:57 PM
"'there's still a little back and forth' between the Yanks and Twins regarding Santana"
WHAT! NO WAY!
Posted by: levelboss | January 14, 2008 at 11:37 PM
this is ridiculous. boston would get him next off-season in free agency. i don't think they repeat as WS champs next year so i think they go and get johan next off-season and can actually offer MORE than the yankees. the yankees need to get him NOW and sign him to a 6 year/120 contract (which will be a bargain compared to what he can get next year at a year older (7 at 140+). the red sox are becoming a force yankees, both with money and better player development. be afraid.
Posted by: minnesotawins | January 14, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Why do people even care about the Yankees in this, at NO point have they had the best package on the table, they won't offer anyone half decent along with Hughes, and won't get Santana.
Just stop talking about them, its Red Sox and Mets.
Or he stays.
Posted by: quintjs | January 15, 2008 at 03:21 AM
"No Santana, no postseason for the yankees this year. Period."
Yeah, I Know!, Havent those stupid Yankees realized that they are unable to maintain ground and compete with the rest of baseball over the last 15 years without Santana? Some of these posts are so crazy. So how does a team that improves off of a 94 win season come off with no chance at a playoff birth in mid january.
As for the guys saying the Yanks/Mets should just empty the farm out and give Johan whatever he wants, you guys would be expert negotiaters/hagglers. Just give everything you have away without a negotiation. Its like buying a 50 thousand dollar car for 100 K.
Posted by: nrmax88 | January 15, 2008 at 04:57 AM
Wooo, Santana is NOT going to make the hall if he retires right now . he's peak isn't anywhere close to Koufax / Pedro and both of them still compiled wayyy more stats than him. He'll need a few more years of good pitching at least to pad up the stats.
Posted by: Yu Hsing Chen | January 15, 2008 at 05:31 AM
As for Boston beating the Yanks if Johan reaches FA? what is that based on really? the Yankees have a ridiculas amount of money comming off the books in 08 (Giambi -20M, Abreu -16M , Pavano -10M Mussina 11M Pettitte 16M Farnsworth 7M )that's well over 60M .. how is that not enough to sign Santana, Teixira, Dunn, and still have change to buy the Florida Marlins?
Posted by: Yu Hsing Chen | January 15, 2008 at 05:34 AM
UPDATE, 1-14-08 at 10:28pm: Hank says "there's still a little back and forth" between the Yanks and Twins regarding Santana. Ugh.
It's not Cashman it's Steinbrenner who doesn't think they need Santana. But look at their options, they don't. The pitching isn't the greatest, but their offense features superhuman slugger Alex Rodriguez.
Posted by: boston | January 14, 2008 at 04:00 PM
Good point boston. Even if they trade Hughes, they still have Joba, Kennedy, Horne, Sanchez, Brackman. I mean give me a break. This isnt the 41 year old Randy Johnson available here. Its Johan Santana, the pitcher we HOPE Hughes turns out to be. Makes absolutely no sense how they are not goin after Santana. Also, the yankees have at least 50-60 million comin off the payroll after next year so they could restructure Santanas contract. Oh and the idiot Steinbrenner saqys we dont care if he goes to Boston. What a joke because if he does the Yankees wont see another division title at least for 5-6 years.
Posted by: Joeboy29 | January 14, 2008 at 04:26 PM
Rotation's not good? What's your guess for an aggregate ERA for the rotation, and where do you think that would rank in MLB?
nrmax is right. It is not hard to make the case that Hughes by himself is a much more valuable property than Santana at this point. It gets more complicated when you have the Yankees' financial resources but there is no doubt that Hughes will be a bigger bargain in his pre-FA years than Santana will be this year.
How much is it worth to have Santana? Hard to say. And don't act like he's the missing piece in their postseason failures either - he's been nothing special in the playoffs.
Posted by: bobo | January 14, 2008 at 04:30 PM
This is the smartest move for the Yankees. Cashman has worked his tail off to compile this kind of young talent. Don't be surprised to see the yankees not catch that wild card next year. however in '09 once they work up hughes and chamberlains innings, this rotation will be a pretty dominant one. People who say Mussina is a great 5, i disagree. mussina has always had alot of run support. he never has had a 20 game winning season and overall is probably the most overrated pitcher in the Major Leagues right now. Mussina doesn't belong a step above triple A for this season. I would definitely work up Kennedy's innings this season and maybe interchange his starts with kei igawa as all he really has to do is bring the ball down in the zone. The yankees will not have a good '08 year but '09 will be a tough team to beat. their offense is pretty set in stone for the next few years and though they still have a weak bullpen, perhaps mussina would be good for this position? otherwise they will need joba and hughes to throw at least 6.1-6.2 innings per game and mariano will see alot more usage this season, and i dont see that happening.
Posted by: Santana/Beckett FTW | January 14, 2008 at 04:50 PM
No Santana, no postseason for the yankees this year. Period.
Posted by: PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ | January 14, 2008 at 04:51 PM
And Jehu i dunno what sources ur using that the sox dont have great pitching either. hands down the sox without santana are still the best pitching team in baseball. their rotation hasn't changed. they lead the league in pitching last season. why would you think this year will be any different. if anything they will be better. you have a more experienced Lester and Bucholz, a hall of famer and leader in Schilling, an ace in beckett, a potential ace in Matsuzaka whos only going to get better as he adjusts to the MLB. At the back end you got Wakefield who posted what like a 2.1-2.20 era for the whole first half of the year last season? granted he fell apart in the second half but he was still very impressive. he was also injured in the second half so the knuckler wasn't moving as well. Their bullpen also one of the best in baseball. Papelbon (unlike mariano or most other closers) is very comfortable giving 2 innings of work, Okajima is the best setup man in baseball. I just really dont know what the hell you are referring to. lol
Posted by: Santana/Beckett FTW | January 14, 2008 at 05:01 PM
Without Santana, they don't have a chance again BOTH Cleveland and Detroit (and Boston, who I admit are better right now)? I beg to differ.
Chances are good that they'll be better than last year. That's a damn good shot at making the playoffs, I think.
Posted by: bobo | January 14, 2008 at 05:09 PM
I think they could win the wildcard with that rotation and lineup. But, they would need to add something to win in the playoffs. They don't have that true ace for the postseason.
Posted by: brian2706 | January 14, 2008 at 05:28 PM
"This guy is hands down best in the game, and the Yankees only want to give up one of their three top prospects, and then one of Cano or Cabrera? How cheap are these guys that they can't give Minnesota a fair deal for the best pitcher in the game?"
Please site a precedent for a "fair deal" for a pitcher in his walk year. A 31 year old CYA winning David Cone was traded by KC to Toronto for Chris Stynes, David Sinnes and Tony Medrano. He was then traded by Totonto to NY for Marty Jansen, Jason Jarvis and Mike Gordon. There's a reason you've never heard of those guys. Awesome as Santana is, nobody is worth more than what has already been offered for him (by at least two teams) plus the contract it will take to get him to agree to the trade.
Posted by: mac_1103 | January 14, 2008 at 07:23 PM
"NJM, just to play devils advocate, would it help Joba's case as a reliever if he is the alternative to a guy like Farns blowing games once or twice a week?"
There are approximately 27 weeks during the baseball season. Farnsworth didn't cost the Yankees anything even close to that number of games. I'm sure there was some exaggeration intended in your post, but it sort of underscores how exaggerated relief pitching is in general, atleast relative to starting pitching. There is almost no situation where I would take a guy capable of throwing 200 effective IPs and intentionally chop that in half. If Mariano could have handled starting with anything resembling the same level of domination he shows out of the pen (which his 1995 and minor league results suggest he couldn't), I would have much rather had him start. There's a reason, usually either lack of stamina or lack of repertoire, that most relievers are failed starters. Starters are much more valuable.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | January 14, 2008 at 07:55 PM
You want good relievers out of no where examples?
Joakim Soria: rule 5 pick!
JJ Putz: mediocare until 06 .. at the age of 29 and after 3 years in the majors he suddenly went from decent reliever to super star closer.
Bobby Jenks: claimed OFF THE FUCKING WAIVER
Takashi Saito : declined former star in the NPB. pitched like Mariano Rivera ever since landing in the US
Hideki Okajima: never was the biggest star in Japan. pitched lights out for Boston.
you want the ultimate example of a great reliver out of nowhere? how about THE FIRST EVER HALL OF FAME RP Hoyt Wilhelm ? HE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE MAJORS UNTIL AGE 29!!!
YES good RPs can very very often pop out of abosalute nowhere if you just use the right approach.
Posted by: Yu Hsing Chen | January 14, 2008 at 09:09 PM
"I think they could win the wildcard with that rotation and lineup. But, they would need to add something to win in the playoffs. They don't have that true ace for the postseason."
Another myth.
Years where the WS winner had an established "true ace" (we can fight over what that means too) who pitched well ("ace-like") in that postseason:
2007, 2006, 2001, 1995
Years where this wasn't true:
2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2000, 1999 (MAYBE Cone), 1998 (again maybe Cone), 1997, 1996
And to further support the point, how about all the guys who would be considered "true aces" and didn't pitch well in the postseason.
I thought everyone knew this by now, but the postseason is a complete crapshoot. Winning 11 games in October means so little in the grand scheme of things.
Sure, an ace is nice, and I am not foolish enough to say that the Yankees wouldn't be better with him. And if he would guarantee a WS win, then yeah, you probably trade Hughes for him. But of course that's not the case.
Posted by: bobo | January 14, 2008 at 09:31 PM
pitching is fine - Wang, Pettite, Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy/Mussina - top 5 rotation in MLB. Lineup still top 3 in MLB. Cashman needs to shore up 1st base defense - use some of the pitching depth (Jeff Karstens, Horne, etc.) to get a quality/defensive 1st baseman. Team should win 92-97 games.
Posted by: corpreorg | January 14, 2008 at 09:42 PM
Folks here should enjoy this:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlEoVVUayl.hqM6Tzab2E8wRvLYF?slug=ap-yankees-santana&prov=ap&type=lgns
TAMPA, Fla. (AP)—New York Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner has not closed the door on a trade for Minnesota Twins left-hander Johan Santana.
...
Steinbrenner said reports that the Yankees recently withdrew a formal offer to the Twins are not true.
“There wasn’t an official offer anyway. You can’t withdraw something that wasn’t there,” Steinbrenner said. “There was no official offer on the table at this time.”
Posted by: mac_1103 | January 14, 2008 at 09:50 PM
He is the best pitcher in baseball. Prospects our prospects. I cannot believe some of these comments I am reading. A pither like Santana, who is still in his prime, comes around once a decade if that. He is a already a first ballot hall of famer. Having him on your staff completely changes a playoff series, and you probobly would not have to worry about a big losing streak with him pitching every 5 days. It is amazing he is available! If he were on a big market team, he would never be available at any cost! I have watched him time after time shutdown my White Sox year after year. Trust me this guy is worth all of that and a bag of chips.
Posted by: PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ | January 14, 2008 at 10:33 PM
"A pither like Santana, who is still in his prime, comes around once a decade if that. He is a already a first ballot hall of famer."
So you are telling me a guy with 93 wins is a fist ballot hall of famer right now? Say he loses his arm tomorrow, in 5 years is he going to the HOF. Yea, you could say that the BBWA could show some compassion to him, but they didn't show any to Jim Abbot. You can make a case about a guy like Sandy Koufax who retried early, but Koufax was an absolute beast even though he only won 165 games. Santana is no Koufax though, if he continues to pitch the way he is now for 10 more years, he will be most likely the greatest pitcher to ever step onto the field. But, let us ot over exaggerate him anymore than everyone already has.
Posted by: bravesrule14 | January 14, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Agreed, the Yankees should be the friggin' Yankees, add Kennedy to the deal, and get it done.
Santana, Wang, Pettite, Chamberlin, Mussina
Posted by: jrfukudome | January 14, 2008 at 10:49 PM
If I was a Yankees fan I would be scared to make the playoffs this year. The combination of all these young pitchers, Girardi with his questionable history with young pitchers (albeit overblown) and the pressure to win could spell disaster for the long run. Who really wants to be the one to explain to Hank that you have to start Igawa over Chamberlain while you are fighting for your playoff life?
Posted by: walkoffblast | January 14, 2008 at 10:57 PM
"'there's still a little back and forth' between the Yanks and Twins regarding Santana"
WHAT! NO WAY!
Posted by: levelboss | January 14, 2008 at 11:37 PM
this is ridiculous. boston would get him next off-season in free agency. i don't think they repeat as WS champs next year so i think they go and get johan next off-season and can actually offer MORE than the yankees. the yankees need to get him NOW and sign him to a 6 year/120 contract (which will be a bargain compared to what he can get next year at a year older (7 at 140+). the red sox are becoming a force yankees, both with money and better player development. be afraid.
Posted by: minnesotawins | January 14, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Why do people even care about the Yankees in this, at NO point have they had the best package on the table, they won't offer anyone half decent along with Hughes, and won't get Santana.
Just stop talking about them, its Red Sox and Mets.
Or he stays.
Posted by: quintjs | January 15, 2008 at 03:21 AM
"No Santana, no postseason for the yankees this year. Period."
Yeah, I Know!, Havent those stupid Yankees realized that they are unable to maintain ground and compete with the rest of baseball over the last 15 years without Santana? Some of these posts are so crazy. So how does a team that improves off of a 94 win season come off with no chance at a playoff birth in mid january.
As for the guys saying the Yanks/Mets should just empty the farm out and give Johan whatever he wants, you guys would be expert negotiaters/hagglers. Just give everything you have away without a negotiation. Its like buying a 50 thousand dollar car for 100 K.
Posted by: nrmax88 | January 15, 2008 at 04:57 AM
Wooo, Santana is NOT going to make the hall if he retires right now . he's peak isn't anywhere close to Koufax / Pedro and both of them still compiled wayyy more stats than him. He'll need a few more years of good pitching at least to pad up the stats.
Posted by: Yu Hsing Chen | January 15, 2008 at 05:31 AM
As for Boston beating the Yanks if Johan reaches FA? what is that based on really? the Yankees have a ridiculas amount of money comming off the books in 08 (Giambi -20M, Abreu -16M , Pavano -10M Mussina 11M Pettitte 16M Farnsworth 7M )that's well over 60M .. how is that not enough to sign Santana, Teixira, Dunn, and still have change to buy the Florida Marlins?
Posted by: Yu Hsing Chen | January 15, 2008 at 05:34 AM
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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:41 am
i'm more nervous to see Joba start and then get an injury early on like Hughes last year
rather see Joba as setup man like i've said before
(check the 1-run win percentage before the all-star break and then after Joba became setup man)
Posted by: levelboss | January 14, 2008 at 02:08 PM
Even factoring in leverage, there's no way that 80 IPs of Joba is better than 150. Besides, keeping him at setup means he's another year late on his development as a starter since he won't exceed last year's innings total by much if at all. If you look across the majors, very good relievers can be discovered out of nowhere; #1/#2 starters cannot.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | January 14, 2008 at 02:10 PM
"very good relievers can be discovered out of nowhere"
oh really? then where are they hiding? between Flash Gordon and Joba Chamberlain there's been about 3 years of sketchy relief between starters and Mo
where are these 'very good relievers from nowhere'?
Posted by: levelboss | January 14, 2008 at 02:41 PM
NJM, just to play devils advocate, would it help Joba's case as a reliever if he is the alternative to a guy like Farns blowing games once or twice a week? The Yankees dont have a great pen and Joba and Mo would make it a 7 inning game pretty much. I am not sure what I do with Joba this year if I am the Yankees, but he has to be a starter in the future. I think there could be a chance that Joba can help more this year pitching the 8th unless somebody comes out of nowhere and takes the job and runs with it.
I think mac_1103 and bobo sum it up. They will be fine, they will be in the race all year, because their offense is that good. The one problem, as stated is how to get innings without wearing out your young guys and/or the bullpen. Ability is not a problem, because if one of the young guys gets hurt or isnt ready, they still easily have the pieces to go get atleast a league average pitcher that can pitch to a 4.50 era and win a lot of games with a great offense. There is no gauruntee they make the playoffs or win the division, but they should at the worst be a factor all year.
Posted by: nrmax88 | January 14, 2008 at 02:46 PM
"oh really? then where are they hiding? between Flash Gordon and Joba Chamberlain there's been about 3 years of sketchy relief between starters and Mo
where are these 'very good relievers from nowhere'?"
That is a silly response. If they are coming out of nowhere you obviously wouldnt know about them because the season hasnt started. 2006, New York Mets, guys who came out of nowhere pretty much and made up a terrific pen. Aaron Heilman, Duaner Sanchez, Darren Oliver, Chad Bradford, Pedro Feliciano. A guy like Edwuar Ramirez could make a couple of adjustments in the winter and comeback and be dominant. Not Joe Morgan is right that good relief pitchers are everywhere if you know where to look. You just have to find live arms and hope that they stick.
Posted by: nrmax88 | January 14, 2008 at 02:49 PM
I have to agree with FINITE. Sabathia's agent must be ecstatic now that Santana is off to the Mets (prediction).
If I were Girardi (and it would be great to be best-friends with Paul O'Neill), I would have the following rotation:
Pettitte (19 wins)
Wang (18 wins)
Hughes (16 wins, if no injuries)
and then rotate Mussina, Kennedy, and Chamberlain ... 2 weeks on, 1 week off ... giving an opportunity for some short relief in the meantime
I believe this will net the Yankees 28 - 34 wins out of the final two spots in the rotation and keep everyone healthy.
Posted by: rossdfarian | January 14, 2008 at 02:53 PM
I cant understand Yankee fans. How is the Yankees pitching staff good the way it is?? All these years the Yankees spend tons of money on players at the end of there careers as well as giving up a ton of prospects for these players. Now when a 29 year old pitcher who is still in his prime,and the best in baseball is available suddenly they dont have the money and they dont want to trade prospects. Has everyone watched the Yankees not make it out of the 1st round the last 3 years?? Did everyone watch there #1 pitcher Wang lose 2 games to the Indians this year? Andy pettite has a bad elbow, Mussina is done and you are HOPING the prospects pan out. How in the world does that moron Cashman think that the Yankees dont need Santana. Wake up Cashman!
Posted by: Joeboy29 | January 14, 2008 at 03:26 PM
Because you dont trade Hughes alone for Santana, with one year left on his contract, and when you will be forced into offering him the most risky contract probably ever in baseball. The Yankees past preferences in regard to contracts and prospects has nothing to do with the current situation.
Posted by: nrmax88 | January 14, 2008 at 03:38 PM
And the Twins want 2 or 3 more guys on top of Hughes.
Posted by: nrmax88 | January 14, 2008 at 03:39 PM
You have got to be kidding me. What the Yankees are trying to send to get Santana is rediculous. Look who we're talking about.
This guy is hands down best in the game, and the Yankees only want to give up one of their three top prospects, and then one of Cano or Cabrera? How cheap are these guys that they can't give Minnesota a fair deal for the best pitcher in the game?
Besides, I don't see any problems since they still have Wang, Pettite, Hughes, Chamberlain, Mussina, Igawa, Kennedy, Wright and Karstens as starting options. I think if they really want to land Santana they should send Hughes, Kennedy, Cabrera, Tabata and either Karstens or a AA or A prospect with potential. With that they could also take Luis Rodriguez or a prospect with Santana.
Posted by: boston | January 14, 2008 at 03:58 PM
The Yankees rotation is not good; how the team does obviously depends on their offense. Last year it was dominant and therefore the team won a lot of games. If that happens again they will be a playoff contender, though the Wild Card race could be a tough one (2nd place AL Central vs. 2nd place AL East).
It's true that the Red Sox rotation isn't all that great either- which is why they have made offers for Santana- but they are less reliant on young arms than the Yanks.
Posted by: jehu | January 14, 2008 at 04:00 PM
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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:41 am
Am I the only one who noticed that there isn't any actual news in the Marchand report? It's just recycled Hank quotes and an un-named source pretending that something new has happened.
As for the Yankees' pitching, it will be just fine with that offense. They certainly could stand to be stronger at the front end of the rotation and in the bullpen beyond Rivera. But they have considerable depth in both areas. The real question is not whether they have a legitimate ace as of right now -- they don't -- but whether they have one by September 1. That ace could be Hughes or Chamberlain or someone they trade for during ST or at the deadline.
Posted by: mac_1103 | January 14, 2008 at 01:32 PM
There are a lot of questions in the rotation with 2 rookies, Mussina shakey at best last year, is Wang mentally shot from the playoffs, and is petitte mentally shot from the Mitchelle report. They can be good, but nobody is a certainty for sure
Posted by: JayL78 | January 14, 2008 at 01:33 PM
And no pitcher is ever a certainty. See: Chris Carpenter.
Posted by: V | January 14, 2008 at 01:42 PM
Super analysis, Jay. Two Yankees pitchers are "mentally shot". Take that to Vegas, kids.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | January 14, 2008 at 01:46 PM
My only concern (and it's a big one) is how to manage the innings. You don't want guys shuffling back and forth to the pen. A 6 man rotation where Wang pitches on 4 days rest as much as possible might work. I don't know - I do bet that Cashman and Girardi have probably spent as much time on this as they have with trade talk.
Anyway, skill-wise, as a Yankee fan, I love it - especially after watching the crap thrown out there day after day last year.
Are the young guys unproven? Sure. Doesn't mean I'd take Kyle Lohse over them. Some consistency will surely be lacking but you've got two young pitchers who legitimately have the stuff to throw an amazing game each time out.
It would not surprise me at all to see this group with an ERA very close to 4, which would rank among the best in the majors. Most projections I'm seeing agree (though the projected IP on the young guys are way too low).
Posted by: bobo | January 14, 2008 at 01:48 PM
Odds are that an injury will naturally sort out the 6 man rotation and kill all best laid plans. Hopefully all 6 are treated like starters and, if all look healthy and ready to go, one becomes the long man that Torre refused to carry. I really don't want to see Joba back to an every other day routine even if he's in the pen; seems like you're begging for an injury if you have him go from 20 pitches every 2 or 3 days to 90+ pitches every 5 days inside the season. I know Billingsley handled that exact scenario pretty well last year but it still gets me a little nervous.
Posted by: Not Joe Morgan | January 14, 2008 at 01:54 PM
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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:42 am
disagree:
Joba has shown he has great stuff and makeup to be a set-up guy... but why waste your top prospect on 55-70 innings of relief?
I think it is imperative for the Yankees to give Joba a shot at the starting rotation -- if they find that his stuff doesn't hold up into the latter innings, then fine, delegate him to the bullpen. There is no way the Yankees don't start him off in the rotation.
Posted by: at4inthemornin | January 14, 2008 at 12:56 PM
As a Blue Jay fan I am absolutely thrilled that the Yankees are passing up the chance to acquire Santana because of Ian Kennedy. If the Jays are healthy this year they will finish 2nd to Boston in the AL East. The Yanks have no shot of catching Cleveland and Detroit with that rotation.
Posted by: 92-93 | January 14, 2008 at 12:57 PM
Well, the rotation is most certainly better than last year. And the Yankees won 94 games last year. And any injury concerns with Pettitte are right out the window. He just posted his third straight year of 200+ IP. He is less of an injury risk than Beckett.
And Boston's vaunted rotation is way, way overhyped. It's performance relies on another career year from Beckett, as well as Dice-K improving drastically, which he had shown no indication of doing whatsoever last year. Actually, no Japanese starting pitcher has gotten better after his first year in the majors. Odds are very much against Mr. Matsuzaka. Schilling is just another year older, and a huge injury risk. You know what you're getting from Wakefield, 200 innings of 4.50 ball. Assuming he doesn't injure himself, the old codger. I like Buchholz very much, but Lester is really not much to speak of. They've got depth at the major league level (although notably very, very little past that), but only one proven, non-injury risk starter. On paper, the Angels still have the best rotation by far in the major leagues. No one is even close, not even Toronto.
Posted by: Andrew | January 14, 2008 at 12:58 PM
Both Boston and Toronto's rotations are better than LAA's.
Posted by: 92-93 | January 14, 2008 at 01:00 PM
Anyone who criticizes the Yanks for not getting Santana just doesnt get it. Who would you rather have in 2009? Santana or Sabathia AND Hughes AND $4 million AND Melky AND Horne.
Posted by: finite24 | January 14, 2008 at 01:20 PM
Really? John Lackey, Kelvim Escobar, and Jered Weaver are by far and away better than Beckett/Dice-K/Schilling, with Halladay/Burnett/McGowan being a little closer. Add into the fact that the Angels have guys like Jon Garland, Joe Saunders, Dustin Moseley, Ervin Santana, they have the best top 3, and better depth than either team. Rotation-wise, on paper, the Angels win out, I think pretty clearly. And they're not too bad in the bullpen either, but admittedly Boston has gotten everyone beaten there.
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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:45 am
From a Mets fan
caine115 Post #1: 12:55 am Quote | Report Violation
Total Posts: 87
PICK ANY 4 PROSPECTS YOU LIKE. GIVE US A MEDIOCRE PROSPECT BACK AND I WILL GIVE YOU HEILMAN. IF YOU REALLY WANT THAT 5th PROSPECT IN MARTINEZ SAME THING. GIVE US A MEDIOCRE PROSPECT WITH IT.
THE DAM METS CAN AFFORD TO SIGN PLAYERS AROUND THERE CORE FOR A COUPLE YEARS. I WANT TO WIN NOW. GIVE US JOHAN. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL HAVE 2 JOHANS WHEN THE PROSPECTS BLOOM. BUT I NEED THE METS TO WIN AND I NEED THEM TO BE FAR BETTER THEN THE YANKEES. I WILL EVEN THROUGH IN MY EX GIRLFRIENDS SOUL.
TAKE THE METS OFFER. FROM ONE YANKEE HATER TO ANOTHER!.
Sorry for caps. I needed to make a point. Help us be better then the Yankees. We have offered you the farm system and we still need to give the guy 140 mill. make them do it. Cause our GM sucks. Omar is horrible so its like a first date. You need to move in for the kiss. Do it cause our joke of a GM will die a virgin
caine115 Post #1: 12:55 am Quote | Report Violation
Total Posts: 87
PICK ANY 4 PROSPECTS YOU LIKE. GIVE US A MEDIOCRE PROSPECT BACK AND I WILL GIVE YOU HEILMAN. IF YOU REALLY WANT THAT 5th PROSPECT IN MARTINEZ SAME THING. GIVE US A MEDIOCRE PROSPECT WITH IT.
THE DAM METS CAN AFFORD TO SIGN PLAYERS AROUND THERE CORE FOR A COUPLE YEARS. I WANT TO WIN NOW. GIVE US JOHAN. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL HAVE 2 JOHANS WHEN THE PROSPECTS BLOOM. BUT I NEED THE METS TO WIN AND I NEED THEM TO BE FAR BETTER THEN THE YANKEES. I WILL EVEN THROUGH IN MY EX GIRLFRIENDS SOUL.
TAKE THE METS OFFER. FROM ONE YANKEE HATER TO ANOTHER!.
Sorry for caps. I needed to make a point. Help us be better then the Yankees. We have offered you the farm system and we still need to give the guy 140 mill. make them do it. Cause our GM sucks. Omar is horrible so its like a first date. You need to move in for the kiss. Do it cause our joke of a GM will die a virgin
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Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:55 am
It's ridiculous how the media changes so fast .. just a couple days ago the Mets had the "best offer" and the Yanks were backing out, and the Sox were there ... Now the Yanks are back in, and all of a sudden the Sox package looks like the best thing in the world, and the Mets fall to third option again, I am kind of sick of this, it's really like a tug of war, and it's obnoxious. I don't even want to follow these talks anymore, but of course I will.
Hughes, Cabrera, Kennedy & Marquez ehhhh image
Didnt the Twins back off Kennedy weeks ago, sounds like someone is trying to make sure the price is nice and painful for someone else.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01152008/sports/yankees/still_playing_91468.htm
With friends like these....
You can count Robinson Cano among the Yankees who want Santana in pinstripes.
"It's a sweet deal if we can get Santana, we need a No. 1 guy," Cano said yesterday in Randolph, NJ, where he spoke to elementary school children.
Cano's enthusiasm for a Santana trade to the Yanks isn't dampened by the fact it would likely mean dealing Cabrera, his closest friend on the team.
Though Cabrera was the Yankees' starting center fielder for most of last season, Cano said there's no guarantee that would be the case in 2008 - Johnny Damon is under contract for two more years - and a trade might be the best thing for Cabrera.
"I love Melky, but he would play every day in Minnesota, so if there's a deal it's probably going to be great for him," Cano said. "I'm going to be happy for him, that's what I told him."
As much as Cano wants Santana on the team, he indicated the only way not getting him would be a catastrophe is if the Red Sox did.
"If they get Santana, they're going to be a way better team," Cano said. "But I hope we get him. It's not a good [thing] for us if they get Santana."
Hughes, Cabrera, Kennedy & Marquez ehhhh image
Didnt the Twins back off Kennedy weeks ago, sounds like someone is trying to make sure the price is nice and painful for someone else.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01152008/sports/yankees/still_playing_91468.htm
With friends like these....
You can count Robinson Cano among the Yankees who want Santana in pinstripes.
"It's a sweet deal if we can get Santana, we need a No. 1 guy," Cano said yesterday in Randolph, NJ, where he spoke to elementary school children.
Cano's enthusiasm for a Santana trade to the Yanks isn't dampened by the fact it would likely mean dealing Cabrera, his closest friend on the team.
Though Cabrera was the Yankees' starting center fielder for most of last season, Cano said there's no guarantee that would be the case in 2008 - Johnny Damon is under contract for two more years - and a trade might be the best thing for Cabrera.
"I love Melky, but he would play every day in Minnesota, so if there's a deal it's probably going to be great for him," Cano said. "I'm going to be happy for him, that's what I told him."
As much as Cano wants Santana on the team, he indicated the only way not getting him would be a catastrophe is if the Red Sox did.
"If they get Santana, they're going to be a way better team," Cano said. "But I hope we get him. It's not a good [thing] for us if they get Santana."
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:56 am
oh they have johan santana? oh wait no they don't
JOSH BECKETT IS NOT THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL
that is why i made my overhyped comment
he's been amazing in the post season but stop right there. he is not the best pitcher in baseball no fucking way
he's getting way too overhyped because of what he did in the post season, in the regular season he is one of the best (maybe top 3, but i personally would put him top 5 and even that could be argued), not THE best though
and that is definitely not a fact.
i don't know what you mean by most consistent 1-2 is that pitching? hitting (lead-off and 2nd?) or do you mean 3-4 (ortiz and manny... which would make the most sense)
hopefully you mean ortiz and manny, i don't know where 1-2 came from though
their bullpen is the only reason i would think they win the division again, aside from that i don't think they have a great edge over the yankees
i kind of feel like their rotation is getting a little overrated.. looks good on paper though. but so did their 2006 rotation with all the "depth" they apparently had
Beckett is better than Santana. You don't get it do you, Beckett isn't and will not be eratic anymore, he's finally got it sorted out and he's an ass-kicker of a pitcher. When Beckett pitches, mark it down it is a win. Santana is close but not as close a sure thing. Not saying Santana sucks but I think Beckett has better stuff, and on his best day will outpitch anyone in the majors.
Again how can you overhype what he did in the post season, especially in 07. He won every game he pitched in and was dominant in every one. Not good, not great but dominant!! How is that over hyped please explain?? Would you apply the same logic or lack there of if it was Joba doing what Beckett is doing?
Yep rotation is overrated. Had an ERA around 3 which lead the league but overrated. Have rookies comparable to ours with shitloads of talent, but again you're right overrarted. Have a guy who won 15 games in an adjusting year, but has the potential to really dominate but of course overrated. Can't believe I missed how they were overrated. Must be these normal glasses i'm wearing instead of pinstripe-coloured ones.
Way to be obtuse on the 1-2 thing. Yes I was referring to Ortiz and Manny, which you clearly understood as you pointed it out. Sorry if it confused anyone else however a special sorry to Caldan. Just to clarify especially for Caldan:
They have the best 3-4, Lefty-Righty, hitting punch in the game that actually shows up in the playoffs and can carry the team. That clarify everything for you jnr? You want me to draw a picture, produce a pop-up book so it simplifies it even more for you?
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:24 am
New York Giants vs Green Bay Packers
Eli like Peyton did in 03 won not one playoff game but two and then like Peyton he will loose #3. Both T.O and Galloway were banged up which led to one reason the Giants are still alive but The Pack have more than one weapon. With the giants secondary banged up it will be a fun day for Number 4
The Pick: Packers 48 Giants 14
Eli like Peyton did in 03 won not one playoff game but two and then like Peyton he will loose #3. Both T.O and Galloway were banged up which led to one reason the Giants are still alive but The Pack have more than one weapon. With the giants secondary banged up it will be a fun day for Number 4
The Pick: Packers 48 Giants 14
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:27 am
Twins GM is mum on Santana
Smith in no rush to deal ace lefty
Smith in no rush to deal ace lefty
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/01/15/twins_gm_is_mum_on_santana/
By Nick Cafardo
Globe Staff / January 15, 2008
Minnesota Twins general manager Bill Smith said last night he has no timetable on when and if he trades lefthanded ace Johan Santana, and was reluctant to indicate whether anything was imminent.
more stories like this
"There are enough rumors coming out of Boston and New York," he said. "I don't need to fuel any of them or comment on any of them."
There have been newspaper reports in New York that the Yankees have pulled out of the Santana hunt and that it was down to the Red Sox and Mets, but Yankee owner Hank Steinbrenner yesterday told the Associated Press, "we're still discussing it." Smith did not indicate that any team had been ruled out.
"Like I said, there's no timetable on my part," Smith said. "We're just trying to do what's best for the Minnesota Twins. We're trying to do the right thing by our team for now and in the future."
The Yankees have offered a package that includes center fielder Melky Cabrera, righthanded pitcher Phil Hughes, pitching prospect Jeff Marquez, and another prospect. There have been reports that the Twins prefer righthander Ian Kennedy, though Smith has not confirmed that.
The Mets have been trying hard to work a deal that includes one or both of their prized outfielders, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez. Pitchers Mike Pelfry and Phillip Humber also could be part of the package.
The Red Sox have been very quiet as of late about their interest. A Jon Lester-Coco Crisp-Justin Masterson and possibly Jed Lowrie package could still be in play. But some Sox officials would prefer to keep their young players and not make the deal.
The Sox feel they are in a win-win situation regarding Santana. If they acquire him, they would have the best lefty-righty combination in the game with him and Josh Beckett; without Santana, they believe they can continue to develop Clay Buchholz and Lester.
Whoever obtains Santana most likely will have to work a long-term deal with him of five to seven years, worth $20 million-$25 million per season. The Red Sox could make such a commitment.
Santana, who has spent most of the offseason in his native Venezuela, told the Fort Myers News-Press, "I'm a Minnesota Twin. That's all I know. It's up to them. Whatever they have to do is going to happen. It has nothing to do with me at all.
"I said it from the beginning during the season last year, whatever will be best for this team and this organization, I'll agree with that."
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:32 am
I read in a draft thread here, that if we don't pick a certain player, that player will come back to haunt this team for years to come, because N.E. will surely draft him. The player in question is Gholston and to some extent it may be true, but if we do draft Gholston N.E. picks next and the choice will surely be a bluechip player, so the arguement doesn't make sense. Honestly do we pass on a talent like Ryan Clady, if we don't touch a FA OL? IMO its NO! However if we do pick Gholston, than lets not stop there lets pick up Groves in the early 2nd round or Pat Simms, than on the third round lets pick up a quality OL who will come in and with the OL we have probably start. But to say this player or that player if we don't draft them will hurt us for years to come, I just don't buy it, and what if DMac is there do we pass on him and let N.E. grab him? The scenarios are endless. We need to focus on what is going to get the JETS to the next level. IMO if we do absolutely nothing in FA, is OL,DL,DL,DDDDDDDDD.
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:33 am
Patriots had the second Highest Payroll in Nfl behind the Panthers
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSalary?statsId=20
NFL Team Payrolls
1 Panthers $123,707,016
2 Patriots $122,725,423
3 Vikings $121,524,054
4 Cowboys $120,821,036
5 Redskins $120,516,130
6 Rams $116,485,467
7 Colts $113,607,772
8 Bengals $111,917,228
9 Seahawks $111,770,825
10 Titans $110,352,610
11 Giants $110,106,554
12 Eagles $103,982,166
13 Falcons $100,713,595
14 Broncos $98,752,003
15 Jaguars $98,335,887
16 Ravens $98,335,887
17 Texans $98,335,887
18 49ers $96,661,366
19 Saints $96,434,976
20 Bears $96,066,989
21 Cardinals $95,544,952
22 Browns $94,357,302
23 Steelers $90,751,557
24 Chargers $90,226,303
25 Packers $90,148,095
26 Buccaneers $87,043,316
27 Raiders $84,521,705
28 Dolphins $83,939,423
29 Lions $81,300,315
30 Chiefs $76,633,107
31 Jets $75,338,300
32 Bills $65,782,440
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSalary?statsId=20
NFL Team Payrolls
1 Panthers $123,707,016
2 Patriots $122,725,423
3 Vikings $121,524,054
4 Cowboys $120,821,036
5 Redskins $120,516,130
6 Rams $116,485,467
7 Colts $113,607,772
8 Bengals $111,917,228
9 Seahawks $111,770,825
10 Titans $110,352,610
11 Giants $110,106,554
12 Eagles $103,982,166
13 Falcons $100,713,595
14 Broncos $98,752,003
15 Jaguars $98,335,887
16 Ravens $98,335,887
17 Texans $98,335,887
18 49ers $96,661,366
19 Saints $96,434,976
20 Bears $96,066,989
21 Cardinals $95,544,952
22 Browns $94,357,302
23 Steelers $90,751,557
24 Chargers $90,226,303
25 Packers $90,148,095
26 Buccaneers $87,043,316
27 Raiders $84,521,705
28 Dolphins $83,939,423
29 Lions $81,300,315
30 Chiefs $76,633,107
31 Jets $75,338,300
32 Bills $65,782,440
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
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Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:39 am
When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 12:59 AM EST
Does anybody know when Sarah was supposed to have died? I remember it was of leukemia, but I'm trying to figure out the time line on this... Post a Reply out of found this valuable. Do you find this valuable?
ghostkwon
ghostkwon RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 2:16 AM EST
She died during the 4th or 5th timeline in 1997. her death is way over due in the series even if they jumped in time. the story takes place in 1999 3 years after her supposed death in the oringinal time/movie arc..... Post a Reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Napalm
Napalm RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 10:57 AM EST
I think they'll use the timetravel thing to save Sara. That's what I'd do anyway. Post a Reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Wild-Kat
Wild-Kat RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 11:51 AM EST
Time travel always confuses storylines, and shows always seem to use it to fix any issues that come up. I'm curious if anybody knows the history behind the movies and when the subsequent movies were planned. For example, T1 was probably created on it's own, but before heading into T2, was the idea for T3 already in the works? I'm sure this series was a more recent development... Post a Reply out of found this valuable. Do you find this valuable?
ghostkwon
ghostkwon RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 4:47 PM EST
"I think they'll use the timetravel thing to save Sara. That's what I'd do anyway."
they cant she dies of leukemia not a bullet or a piano falling on her head she was ment to die they cant save her...even if they use time travel Post a Reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
ghostkwon
ghostkwon RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 4:49 PM EST
"Time travel always confuses storylines, and shows always seem to use it to fix any issues that come up. I'm curious if anybody knows the history behind the movies and when the subsequent movies were planned. For example, T1 was probably created on it's own, but before heading into T2, was the idea for T3 already in the works? I'm sure this series was a more recent development..."
u have to read the books to find out what was to happen inbetween the movies Post a Reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Kyle_Reese
Kyle_Reese RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 5:45 PM EST
"they cant she dies of leukemia not a bullet or a piano falling on her head she was ment to die they cant save her...even if they use time travel"
That's only according to T3, in the movie novelisations Sarah survived to fight with the resistance after Judgement Day. She was killed sometime before 2029 when the supply convoy she was leading was wiped out in an ambush.
Linda Hamilton declined to repeat the role of Sarah in T3 and the film makers decided it was better to write out than recast. Since this series focuses on Sarah the creators obviously decided to ignore the events of T-3 completely. Post a Reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
ghostkwon
ghostkwon RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 5:55 PM EST
o ok Post a Reply out of found this valuable. Do you find this valuable?
Vtoriam
Vtoriam RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 5:59 PM EST
"That's only according to T3, in the movie novelisations Sarah survived to fight with the resistance after Judgement Day. She was killed sometime before 2029 when the supply convoy she was leading was wiped out in an ambush.
Linda Hamilton declined to repeat the role of Sarah in T3 and the film makers decided it was better to write out than recast. Since this series focuses on Sarah the creators obviously decided to ignore the events of T-3 completely."
Thats what I remember, Sarah survived to fight another day. They went south, what was implyed to be very, very south to join up with other resistance fighter groups.
I'm going to pull out the old movies and watch them again,perhaps over the weekend. Post a Reply out of found this valuable. Do you find this valuable?
jhardin
jhardin RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 7:44 PM EST
"...the creators obviously decided to ignore the events of T-3 completely."
Which is as it should be. T3 is one of those Movies that Didn't Happen. Like Highlander 2. Post a Reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
ghostkwon
ghostkwon RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 9:14 PM EST
"That's only according to T3, in the movie novelisations Sarah survived to fight with the resistance after Judgement Day. She was killed sometime before 2029 when the supply convoy she was leading was wiped out in an ambush.
Linda Hamilton declined to repeat the role of Sarah in T3 and the film makers decided it was better to write out than recast. Since this series focuses on Sarah the creators obviously decided to ignore the events of T-3 completely."
okay but when did the novelisations happen when it sayes she dies? because if the series does go after the T:2 then it still sayes sarah was a legend not hero so she would be dead in the future Post a Reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Hodo
Hodo RE: When did Sarah die?
Yesterday, 10:25 PM EST
If I remember my Terminator history right.... SHE DOESNT in this story arc.
T-3 doesnt happen it never happened they are tring to write out the T-3 movie, saying thats a alternate universe of this one. The thing I would worry the most about is how old John Connor is during the Judgement Day.... he is what 15ish now. Judgement day is when now? The original story was Sarah was to run around tring to save her young John after the judgement day. That Sarah was killed by a terminator hunter killer unit, AFTER judgement day. I guess this story line is going to try and follow that arc, with a slight twist. Unfortantly I wish writers wouldnt try to screw with the past, they should learn from Enterprise and Startrek, seeing that was part of that shows down fall. Dont try changing a solid history. Post a Reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Mat-101
Mat-101 RE: When did Sarah die?
32 minutes ago
I'm pretty sure Sarah always died before Judgment day. For eg, the first terminator had no 'Net File' on her, and Reese describes her as a legend, with all her activites pre-war. The Frakes novel has her dying in about 2010, but according to T3, she died either September or October 1997. Post a Reply out of found this valuable. Do you find this valuable?
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RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:44 am
"I'm going to be sick about this one for... for... forever," Coughlin said that day in Nashville, as flustered as the Giants have ever seen him.
Coughlin was asked yesterday for a turning point to this season, and he pointed to the goal-line stand in Washington that gave the Giants their first victory after opening 0-2. But in some ways, that loss in Tennessee stands as the tipping point for his tenure with the Giants.
The team could have completely collapsed; instead, it reached the playoffs -- not coincidentally, winning twice on the road to do it. The Giants have only lost twice in 13 road games since that Music City meltdown, becoming more reliable away from home than Rand McNally.
They'll need to be this weekend in Green Bay, maybe the toughest place for a visiting team in sports. "It's a long plane trip back when you're not winning," Strahan said, leaning on yet another road cliché. "Guys refuse for that to happen. For some reason, the road has worked for us."
The reason is not all that hard to figure out. The reason is the head coach.
Coughlin was asked yesterday for a turning point to this season, and he pointed to the goal-line stand in Washington that gave the Giants their first victory after opening 0-2. But in some ways, that loss in Tennessee stands as the tipping point for his tenure with the Giants.
The team could have completely collapsed; instead, it reached the playoffs -- not coincidentally, winning twice on the road to do it. The Giants have only lost twice in 13 road games since that Music City meltdown, becoming more reliable away from home than Rand McNally.
They'll need to be this weekend in Green Bay, maybe the toughest place for a visiting team in sports. "It's a long plane trip back when you're not winning," Strahan said, leaning on yet another road cliché. "Guys refuse for that to happen. For some reason, the road has worked for us."
The reason is not all that hard to figure out. The reason is the head coach.
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:44 am
The Giants have proven they can take the next step with Coughlin -- whether that happens in three weeks in Arizona or in the coming seasons -- because they have bought into what he has preached from the start. The transformation is more noticeable on the road, where a commitment to fundamentals and avoiding mistakes is the only way a less talented team can go into a visiting stadium and win.
Good road teams don't make mental errors. The Cowboys were the ones missing tackles, muffing punts and dropping passes, while the Giants, with a few exceptions, played mistake-free football.
Good road teams don't make mental errors. The Cowboys were the ones missing tackles, muffing punts and dropping passes, while the Giants, with a few exceptions, played mistake-free football.
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:35 am
Marquez's former first round sandwich pick which Yankees got for losing David Wells when He signed with D-backs. meanwhile Masterson is drafted in later rounds. Oops.. This means Marquez is better talent than Masterson. According to scouts and Baseball America , Masterson's future role in will be in The Bullpen/Setup meanwhile Marquez is #3 or #4 starter in Big Leagues.
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:36 am
Marquez's former first round sandwich pick which Yankees got for losing David Wells when He signed with D-backs. Meanwhile Masterson is drafted in later rounds. Oops.. Meaning that Marquez is better talent than Masterson. According to scouts and Baseball America , Masterson's future role in will be in The Bullpen/Setup meanwhile Marquez is #3 or #4 starter in Big Leagues.
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:42 am
Rosenthal is drinking Mets Kool-aid... Go after Lohse or Livan Hernandez.. Do it Omar...
Buzz: Yankees Still Discussing Santana
I know if it’s Mets related, you have to post it. But, it’s getting to the point for me personally where I wish the site had a filter option so that I would only see a Santana option if the article contained the phrase “Santana traded to Mets.” Again, this comment isn’t meant to say Santana related fluff shouldn’t be posted here as there may be a good number of fans still carnivorous for any hanging Santana news regardless of it actually being “new”. But this is my reaction and I thought to put it out there.
This is making me sick, we need to make sure that we get the other pieces we need for the just in case.
Chris Shelton was just Dfa’d. Go get him right away. He is RH and could be the replacement for Delgado. He has also played (very little of but still) the OF and catcher. He’s still only 27. He did not play last year but his career averages are .281 BA and a .825 OPS, those are by no means bad. Even if we platoon Delgado and Shelton it would be a great pickup.
If not then sign Mench. I think our offense needs a RH hitter still, someone who can platoon with Church/Delgado and play 3+ games a week. Shelton has played a little OF before and could not be any worse than some of our other options.
Bench
Castro, Shelton, Easley, Anderson, Chavez is very balanced. Offensively you have a LH speed guy that can lay down the bunt or come in as a pinch runner in Chavez. Anderson is a LH pinch hitting god. Easley can play many positions and offers a lot of pop against LH. Castro will platoon with Schnieder. This leaves room for that Shelton/Mench type. I would not oppose this spot going to Valentin although it does not help that he is basically a LH hitter. We all like to inflate Gotay’s numbers but he really went down hill as the season went on and his defense is not great for a backup infielder which we already have. My biggest concern for the bench is who plays SS? I guess Easley??
“I’ve been stabbed, shot, poisoned, frozen, hung, electrocuted, and burned.
…and every morning I wake up without a scratch on me, not a dent in the fender… I am an immortal.”
Heysus Omar.. just give them F-mart and call it a friggen day…. or better yet… don’t trade F-mart for the best pitcher on the planet, then two years from now, when he’s not Carlos Lee quite yet.. trade him for a platoon OF and a backup catcher!
We don’t even know if adding FMart would even do it right now. The best thing Omar can do is offer our Gomez, Guerra, Mulvey, Humber package and if someone tops it the Twins will call back and then you can put Martinez in if you want.
I disagree.. if the Yanks include Hughes and the other prospects.. I think thats the package the Twins want… ditto for the Sox with Elsbury and Bucholtz….
Why pussy foot around.. just go get the guy….what happened to a win now club?
Why when Milledge is traded for .20 on the dollar we are a win now team.. but when it comes to Johan.. it’s win later??
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Hm.. well pitchers and catchers are a month away.. the only FA pitchers left are the likes of Bartolo Colon, Kyle Loshe, and Freddy Garcia..
So yeah.. I would say all our eggs are already in the Santana basket..
But hey.. we’ve got a great defenisve catcher and a super thin outfield!
We’ve got piss or get off the pot at this point… I don’t trust our starting staff right now and we have to consider additional options… Omar can’t afford to put all of our eggs in the Satana-dana basket…
That being said, I still am convinced that the Yankees will get him…
Buzz: Yankees Still Discussing Santana
http://www.metsblog.com/2008/01/15/buzz-yankees-still-discussing-santana/
Yesterday, ESPN.com’s Andrew Marchand reported that the Yankees had pulled their ‘Phil Hughes-centered trade offer’ for Johan Santana, adding that the they will not restart trade talks unless Hank Steinbrenner has another change of heart.
Roughly four hours later, Steinbrenner told the Associated Press that the Yankees are still discussing Santana, adding, “There’s still a little talk back and forth.
…oh…my…god…it’s like the movie Groundhog Day…
Steinbrenner, as quoted by the AP…
“There wasn’t an official offer anyway. You can’t withdraw something that wasn’t there. There was no official offer on the table at this time.”
Additionally, according to Tyler Kepner in the New York Times, the Yankees have not had a formal trade offer since the winter meetings in December.
…well, that at least jives with what i had been writing, which is that the Twins want Phil Hughes, and the Yankees will not part with him…once they say, ‘Hey, here’s Hughes, come and get it,’ the Yankees will vault in to the front-runner’s position in this race, and i believe that is what the Twins are holing out hope for…
…of course, if the Yankees can offer a better package from the Twins point of view, one which keeps hughes in pinstripes, but gives minnesota the impactful, major-league ready pitcher they are seeking, the Yankees current quotes could be true - even though they read like flip-flopping nonsense…
In the New York Post, Mark Hale and Mike Puma quote Yankees GM Brian Cashman as saying he could still make a deal for Santana, “if the Twins lower the asking price.”
According to Puma and Hale, citing ‘another Yankees official,’ the Twins continue to demand Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy and Jeff Marquez.
For more on the internal arguments within the Yankees, check out Kepner in the New York Times.
At the same time, according to the Pioneer Press, the Red Sox remain ‘keenly interested’ in trading for Santana.
Meanwhile, according to a person familiar with the situation, Puma and Hale write that a) the Mets are unwilling to go give more than a five-year extension to Santana, and b) the Mets are not engaged in heavy discussions with the Twins anyways.
Last night on SNY’s Mets Hot Stove, the Star-Ledger’s Dan Graziano, FoxSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal and former-GM Jim Duquette talked with Kevin Burkhardt about whether the Mets should trade so many prospects for Santana.
To watch a clip of the discussion, click here.
…by the way, am i the only one who winced at the irony of duquette providing insight in to trading young prospects…eek…
For what it’s worth, when asked where he believes Santana will eventually end up, Rosenthal ‘reluctantly’ said ‘the Mets,’ since he no longer believes anything the Yankees say publicly
I know if it’s Mets related, you have to post it. But, it’s getting to the point for me personally where I wish the site had a filter option so that I would only see a Santana option if the article contained the phrase “Santana traded to Mets.” Again, this comment isn’t meant to say Santana related fluff shouldn’t be posted here as there may be a good number of fans still carnivorous for any hanging Santana news regardless of it actually being “new”. But this is my reaction and I thought to put it out there.
This is making me sick, we need to make sure that we get the other pieces we need for the just in case.
Chris Shelton was just Dfa’d. Go get him right away. He is RH and could be the replacement for Delgado. He has also played (very little of but still) the OF and catcher. He’s still only 27. He did not play last year but his career averages are .281 BA and a .825 OPS, those are by no means bad. Even if we platoon Delgado and Shelton it would be a great pickup.
If not then sign Mench. I think our offense needs a RH hitter still, someone who can platoon with Church/Delgado and play 3+ games a week. Shelton has played a little OF before and could not be any worse than some of our other options.
Bench
Castro, Shelton, Easley, Anderson, Chavez is very balanced. Offensively you have a LH speed guy that can lay down the bunt or come in as a pinch runner in Chavez. Anderson is a LH pinch hitting god. Easley can play many positions and offers a lot of pop against LH. Castro will platoon with Schnieder. This leaves room for that Shelton/Mench type. I would not oppose this spot going to Valentin although it does not help that he is basically a LH hitter. We all like to inflate Gotay’s numbers but he really went down hill as the season went on and his defense is not great for a backup infielder which we already have. My biggest concern for the bench is who plays SS? I guess Easley??
“I’ve been stabbed, shot, poisoned, frozen, hung, electrocuted, and burned.
…and every morning I wake up without a scratch on me, not a dent in the fender… I am an immortal.”
Heysus Omar.. just give them F-mart and call it a friggen day…. or better yet… don’t trade F-mart for the best pitcher on the planet, then two years from now, when he’s not Carlos Lee quite yet.. trade him for a platoon OF and a backup catcher!
We don’t even know if adding FMart would even do it right now. The best thing Omar can do is offer our Gomez, Guerra, Mulvey, Humber package and if someone tops it the Twins will call back and then you can put Martinez in if you want.
I disagree.. if the Yanks include Hughes and the other prospects.. I think thats the package the Twins want… ditto for the Sox with Elsbury and Bucholtz….
Why pussy foot around.. just go get the guy….what happened to a win now club?
Why when Milledge is traded for .20 on the dollar we are a win now team.. but when it comes to Johan.. it’s win later??
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Hm.. well pitchers and catchers are a month away.. the only FA pitchers left are the likes of Bartolo Colon, Kyle Loshe, and Freddy Garcia..
So yeah.. I would say all our eggs are already in the Santana basket..
But hey.. we’ve got a great defenisve catcher and a super thin outfield!
We’ve got piss or get off the pot at this point… I don’t trust our starting staff right now and we have to consider additional options… Omar can’t afford to put all of our eggs in the Satana-dana basket…
That being said, I still am convinced that the Yankees will get him…
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:42 am
Ya know what? I’m done. This is retarded, the Twins are pussyfooting around causing a traffic jam for every other team waiting to see what happens with Santana.
After talks “heated up” a few days ago I figured we had a good chance, now that everyone is back into the “talks” it’s clear…
The stuff the Twins said about liking our prospects was total BS and was only said to make the Yankees or Redsox more desperete.
The Mets are being taken advantage of here, and I dont see them getting Santana at all now.
Screw the Twins, I’m done with all this BS.
I can’t take anymore of this Hankee flip-flopping……..somebody shoot me and put me out of this Santana misery
After talks “heated up” a few days ago I figured we had a good chance, now that everyone is back into the “talks” it’s clear…
The stuff the Twins said about liking our prospects was total BS and was only said to make the Yankees or Redsox more desperete.
The Mets are being taken advantage of here, and I dont see them getting Santana at all now.
Screw the Twins, I’m done with all this BS.
I can’t take anymore of this Hankee flip-flopping……..somebody shoot me and put me out of this Santana misery
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:44 am
Jan 15, 2008 8:09 am - Buzz: Rosenthal on Lohse and Blanton
http://www.metsblog.com/
...posted by Matthew Cerrone...
During his appearance last night on SNY’s Mets Hot Stove, FoxSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal had the following to say about the Mets interest in free-agent RHP Kyle Lohse…
“I think Lohse is certainly a player they’re interested in, and while he hasn’t done much in his career, the Mets like his stuff, they like his durability, his age and they like the fact that he competed down the stretch for Philadelphia…He, essentially, is this year’s Gil Meche: a guy with a world of ability, who hasn’t put it together yet…My problem with him would be giving him three or four years at big money.”
By the way, SNY’s Mets Hot Stove airs live at 6:30 pm and again at 11 pm every Monday.
Lohse is now willing to accept a three-year deal with a vesting option, as opposed to the four-year deal he had been rumored to be seeking, reported Rosenthal over the weekend at FoxSports.com.
During a recent appearance on XM’s MLB Live, Lohse said that at least three teams are interested in signing him.
In 34 starts for the Reds and Phillies last season, the 29–year-old Lohse was 9–12 with a 4.63 ERA, while striking out 122 batters through 192 innings.
Additionally, Rosenthal had the following to say about the A’s, and whether they’ll trade Joe Blanton…
“I think what they’re waiting for is Santana to get traded or not, Erik Bedard to get traded or not, and then they’ll be sitting with a pitcher that others teams want.”
In a report yesterday for MLB.com, an A’s source said he expected Blanton to be Oakland’s opening day starting pitcher.
Last season for the A’s, Blanton was 14–10 with a 3.95 ERA through 34 starts, during which he allowed an average of just one walk per start.
He made at least 32 starts in each of the last three seasons.
He is eligible for salary arbitration this off-season, and the two after that, and is eligible for free agency after 2010.
http://www.metsblog.com/
...posted by Matthew Cerrone...
During his appearance last night on SNY’s Mets Hot Stove, FoxSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal had the following to say about the Mets interest in free-agent RHP Kyle Lohse…
“I think Lohse is certainly a player they’re interested in, and while he hasn’t done much in his career, the Mets like his stuff, they like his durability, his age and they like the fact that he competed down the stretch for Philadelphia…He, essentially, is this year’s Gil Meche: a guy with a world of ability, who hasn’t put it together yet…My problem with him would be giving him three or four years at big money.”
By the way, SNY’s Mets Hot Stove airs live at 6:30 pm and again at 11 pm every Monday.
Lohse is now willing to accept a three-year deal with a vesting option, as opposed to the four-year deal he had been rumored to be seeking, reported Rosenthal over the weekend at FoxSports.com.
During a recent appearance on XM’s MLB Live, Lohse said that at least three teams are interested in signing him.
In 34 starts for the Reds and Phillies last season, the 29–year-old Lohse was 9–12 with a 4.63 ERA, while striking out 122 batters through 192 innings.
Additionally, Rosenthal had the following to say about the A’s, and whether they’ll trade Joe Blanton…
“I think what they’re waiting for is Santana to get traded or not, Erik Bedard to get traded or not, and then they’ll be sitting with a pitcher that others teams want.”
In a report yesterday for MLB.com, an A’s source said he expected Blanton to be Oakland’s opening day starting pitcher.
Last season for the A’s, Blanton was 14–10 with a 3.95 ERA through 34 starts, during which he allowed an average of just one walk per start.
He made at least 32 starts in each of the last three seasons.
He is eligible for salary arbitration this off-season, and the two after that, and is eligible for free agency after 2010.
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
Re: Twins betting Santana Stakes still 3-horse race
RedMagma Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:46 am
The Newark Star-Ledger reported in today's editions that the Mets prefer Baltimore's Erik Bedard to Santana, as Bedard wouldn't require a big contract extension to complete the deal
RedMagma- Posts : 3654
Join date : 2007-12-24
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