Yankees and Redsox

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/


Link By David Lefort, Boston.com Staff December 13, 2007 02:55 PM

A search of the Mitchell report on performance-enhancing drugs in baseball (read it here) found no mentions of current members of the Red Sox.

Former members of the Red Sox linked to performance-enhancing drugs in the report include Roger Clemens, Mo Vaughn, Eric Gagne, Brendan Donnelly, Steve Woodard, Jose Canseco, Manny Alexander, Paxton Crawford, Jeremy Giambi, Josias Manzanillo, Chris Donnels, Mike Lansing, Kent Mercker, and Mike Stanton.

More than a dozen Yankees, past and present, were among the 80-plus players identified.

Here's an interesting excerpt from the report regarding the Red Sox’ pursuit of Gagne. Boston traded for the relief pitcher in the middle of last season:

When the Boston Red Sox were considering acquiring Gagné, a Red Sox official made specific inquiries about Gagné’s possible use of steroids. In a November 1, 2006 email to a Red Sox scout, general manager Theo Epstein asked, “Have you done any digging on Gagne? I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What do you hear on his medical?” The scout, Mark Delpiano, responded,

"Some digging on Gagne and steroids IS the issue. Has had a checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues. Lacks the poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body and re invent self. What made him a tenacious closer was the max effort plus stuff . . . Mentality without the plus weapons and without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back durability and ability to throw average while allowing the changeup to play as it once did . . . Personally, durability (or lack of) will follow Gagne . . ."

Another interesting revelation in the portion of the report about Donnelly:

In considering whether to trade for Donnelly in 2007, Red Sox baseball operations personnel internally discussed concerns that Donnelly was using performance enhancing substances. In an email to vice president of player personnel Ben Charington dated December 13, 2006, Zack Scott of the Red Sox baseball operations staff wrote of Donnelly: “He was a juice guy but his velocity hasn’t changed a lot over the years . . . If he was a juice guy, he could be a breakdown candidate.” Kyle Evans of the baseball operations staff agreed with these concerns, responding in an email that “I haven’t heard many good things about him, w[ith] significant steroid rumors.”

At about 6 p.m., the Red Sox released the following statement in reaction to the Mitchell Report: "The Boston Red Sox have supported and fully cooperated with this investigation initiated by Commissioner Selig and conducted by Senator Mitchell. The Senator and his staff should be thanked and commended for their dedicated and independent efforts in producing this important report. It is imperative that we continue to educate our players on the dangers and unfairness of performance enhancing drugs and to do everything we can to eliminate them entirely from the game of baseball. We are confident that that adoption and implementation of Major League Baseball’s and the Major League Baseball Players Association’s Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program, the toughest in all of professional sports, will also result in helping to achieve this goal. Until we have had the opportunity to read and review more thoroughly the Mitchell Report released today, we will have no further comment at this time."

George Mitchell, who oversaw the report, is a director of the Red Sox, and some questioned whether that created a conflict.

"Judge me by my work," Mitchell said. "You will not find any evidence of bias, special treatment, for the Red Sox or anyone else. That had no effect on this investigation or this report, none whatsoever."

No current Red Sox in Mitchell Report
Message #42214.1
Posted by BostonDotCom on 3:51 PM
A search of the Mitchell report on performance-enhancing drugs in baseball found no mentions of current members of the Red Sox. Former members of the Red Sox linked to performance-enhancing drugs in the report include Roger Clemens, Mo Vaughn, Eric Gagne, Brendan Donnelly, Steve Woodard, Jose Canseco, Manny Alexander, Paxton Crawford, Jeremy Giambi, Josias Manzanillo, Chris Donnels, Mike Lansing, Kent Mercker, and Mike Stanton. More than a dozen Yankees, past and present, were among the 80-plus players identified.
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Message #42214.2 in response to #42214.1
Posted by Brisox on 4:04 PM
What I found Odd is the guys who were not mentioned. Where was Sheffield, Bonds, McGwire. I thought they were lay ups?


“You’ve got to approach every game like it’s the last game of your career,” Tavarez


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Message #42214.3 in response to #42214.2
Posted by COSTANZA© (COSTANZA_TOO) on 4:06 PM
I believe Sheffield and Bonds were both mentioned.

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Message #42214.4 in response to #42214.1
Posted by GoneFishin on 4:10 PM
Due to the number of whistle blowers that were giving names I'm not surprised that current Sox aren't mentioned. But, I realize that this is only the beginning and finger pointing with other names will now begin. I was happy to see that most of the former Sox players listed as users, did so while not in a Red Sox uniform. I'm happy to see that Theo has been asking questions on players he has been looking to acquire.
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Message #42214.5 in response to #42214.1
Posted by Baxter4218 on 4:10 PM
You can't say in one breath more than a dozen yankees past and present were named; then in another pretend like Red Sox (past/present) players were not named simply because guys all of 2 months removed from the payroll don't count.

Brendan Donnelly
Eric Gagne

Toss in other past players and the Sox have about 1/2 dozen on that list.

Every team at some point or another had a guy using steroids. Simply because the attendants/trainers for the other teams didn't get caught its crazy to pretend there was just 1 guy in all of baseball supplying steroids and this list is the complete list.

See also.

Larry Bigbie comments with Jack Cust -

Jack to Bigbie, do you need any steroids.
Bigbie to Cust - no I already have a supplier.

hmmmm.....sounds like there was at least 1 other guy out there that was supplying steroids.


it is what it is.
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Message #42214.6 in response to #42214.1
Posted by JTR555 on 4:18 PM

Here is the complete list of players named:

1. Chad Allen
2. Rick Ankiel
3. David Bell
4. Mike Bell
5. Marvin Benard
6. Gary Bennett, Jr.
7. Larry Bigbie
8. Barry Bonds
9. Kevin Brown
10. Paul Byrd
11. Jose Canseco
12. Mark Carreon
13. Jason Christiansen
14. Howie Clark
15. Roger Clemens
16. Jack Cust
17. Brendan Donnelly
18. Chris Donnels
19. Lenny Dykstra
20. Bobby Estalella
21. Matt Franco
22. Ryan Franklin
23. Eric Gagne
24. Jason Giambi
25. Jeremy Giambi
26. Jay Gibbons
27. Troy Glaus
28. Jason Grimsley
29. Jose Guillen
30. Jerry Hairston, Jr.
31. Matt Herges
32. Phil Hiatt
33. Glenallen Hill
34. Darren Holmes
35. Todd Hundley
36. David Justice
37. Chuck Knoblauch
38. Tim Laker
39. Mike Lansing
40. Paul Lo Duca
41. Exavier "Nook" Logan
42. Josias Manzanillo
43. Gary Matthews, Jr.
44. Mark McGwire
45. Cody McKay
46. Kent Mercker
47. Bart Miadich
48. Hal Morris
49. Daniel Naulty
50. Denny Neagle
51. Rafael Palmeiro
52. Jim Parque
53. Andy Pettitte
54. Adam Piatt
55. Todd Pratt
56. Adam Riggs
57. Brian Roberts
58. John Rocker
59. F.P. Santangelo
60. Benito Santiago
61. Scott Schoeneweis
62. David Segui
63. Gary Sheffield
64. Miguel Tejada
65. Ismael Valdez
66. Mo Vaughn
67. Randy Velarde
68. Ron Villone
69. Fernando Vina
70. Rondell White
71. Jeff Williams
72. Matt Williams
73. Todd Williams
74. Steve Woodard
75. Kevin Young
76. Gregg Zaun


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Message #42214.7 in response to #42214.1
Posted by Reags23 on 4:20 PM
No, not really. The one thing the Red Sox have always done as an organization is bring in professional, good character players. It certainly is refreshing to know that the 2004 and 2007 championships will not be tainted in any way.
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Message #42214.8 in response to #42214.1
Posted by JudsonLamphere on 4:22 PM
You might recall that Schil was invited to those same hearings with Congress. The party line at the time was "as a gentleman of the game". But almost every other player called before that committee (Palmeiro, Mac, Sosa etc.) has been implicated.

AND...Schil credits a turning point in his career when he bumped into Clemens _in_a_gym_ during the offseason.

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Message #42214.9 in response to #42214.6
Posted by rwrigh1 on 4:24 PM

Theo should listen to his scouts more often. In the cases og Gagne and Donnelly he was warned about these guys. I wonder if Theo has also not listened when it came to shortstops?????

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Message #42214.10 in response to #42214.1
Posted by gfunkair on 4:28 PM
So with all these Yankee players around in their 90's in all their glory. Does that put an asterisk by their titles?

But I do think there are more suppliers and more names out there. A report like this could make some think twice before juicin up.

My one Sox guy that I thought would be on the list is Keith Foulke. This guy went from Lights Out in Oak and in Boston to nothing. Around the time he went to nothing is about the time the Congressional Steroid probe was happening.

Too bad A-Rod wasn't on the list. He gotten slightly larger since his earlier days.

I can understand the temptation to see this as a conspiracy, if you are not from Boston.

It wasn't Mitchell's idea to have the investigation, though, so there would have been an investigation even if he weren't involved, and the same evidence presumably would have been available.

Anyway, look more closely: as another Yankee fan pointed out, several former Red Sox players are on the list, including two from last year (and including Clemens). I would add that there are only three Yankees players from last year on the list (unless I missed one): Pettitte, Clemens, and Giambi. Everybody knew about Giambi, and I think they've made their peace with him in NY. Clemens isn't coming back next year, anyway. The only newly identified current player for the Yankees is Pettitte. Pettitte has got to hurt, but look at all the Yankees heroes that aren't on the list, including A-rod and Rivera. Anyway, when you think of the free-agent revolving door the Yankees have been running since the Millenium, how could there not be a bunch of former Yankees on that list? They've had a huge proportion of the major league roster on that team at one point or another. It doesn't mean anything.

So, this really is not as forgiving of the Red Sox, or as damning of the Yankees, as the spin is suggesting. It looks worse for the Orioles, honestly.

The only way you could conclude the Red Sox got off easy would be if you had your own list of Red Sox players you were hoping would get fingered. Sorry, but some guys are just good athletes. If A-Rod and Soriano can have 40-40 years without chemical aides, then Ortiz can hit 54 home runs, and Schilling can win 20 at the age of 39.

http://38pitches.com/2007/12/13/the-most-explosive-24-hours-in-the-games-history/#more-141


I hate to think it is, but I don’t think there is any other way to look at it. Not since the Black Sox scandal of the early 20th century has this sport had to endure what it will starting at 2pm EST.

I am hoping no one I know or respect shows up as a name on this report but I am feeling like that’s wishful thinking.

There will be no shortage of media opinions, castigating, berating and blaming all the names involved. Just remember that this will be coming from the very same people who, like many, turned a blind eye to what many of us believed when we were smack dab in the middle of all the things the Mitchell Report will say.

I can still remember Pedro Gomez, a writer in Arizona, telling me that he specifically ‘knew of 4 guys in this clubhouse that are on steroids’. When I asked him to name them he wouldn’t, but he assured me he knew for a fact. I have yet to see him write an article with those names included. There were many members of the media making these same claims, I’m curious to know what they are going to say now.

I certainly am not blameless. I had opinions like many other people, but I also had a closer view of what was happening. I can say with a very clear conscience, to this day I still have never seen anyone inject or ingest HGH, or steroids. Do I think I know former teammates that may have been? Sure I do. Can I tell you with no uncertainty who that was? No.

And at the end of the day, from everything I hear, that’s what will be contained in the body of this report. Much speculation, conversation, and hearsay, as to what people saw and thought. I don’t believe there will be much hard evidence on anyone mentioned. I don’t think for a second that absolves many that will be named.

Look, if you ordered HGH or steroids, in your name, and there is documentation to prove that you did, please do us all a favor and admit you made a mistake and move on. If you needed it for medical reasons then I am sure you can back that up through your physician if you choose to.

I’m past tired of hearing everything but “I screwed up” or “Ya I made a mistake, I apologize”.

This is a pretty damn forgiving country. We are all about giving people second chances. The quicker anyone guilty is accountable the quicker we can all move on and hopefully make this thing go away, and fix what needs to be fixed.

But I also think there are going to be players named purely on speculation and opinion and that to me will be the true sadness in all of this. I don’t think it’s a reach to say that regardless of the context in which your name might be mentioned in this report, people will lump every name into one big ball of guilty by association, and that won’t be right.

Whatever the outcome I think it’s safe to say that the foreseeable future of this game is going to be rough for everyone involved. The only solution will be to have the MLBPA and MLB itself agree on a course of action that will eliminate the potential of this ever happening again.