Santana

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/

Now here’s some quality blogging from The Replacement Level Yankees Weblog.

They broke down defensive zone ratings for games when Chien-Ming Wang pitches as opposed to when he doesn’t pitch. Turns out the Yankees actually do play better defense when the Wanger is on the mound.

My belief is that Wang’s sinker is such a good pitch that it’s difficult for hitters to do much with it. It leads to grounders and weak fly balls. This negates the relative lack of strikeouts.

I also suspect that Wang fields more balls than an average pitcher because of the sinker. He gets a lot of outs himself.

Anyway, good stuff from RLYB.

————

Don’t forget, spring training tickets go on sale at 10 a.m. today. Ticketmaster has them.

ments

And 37 year old Bobby Abreu steps to the plate...

Posted by: joe | January 10, 2008 at 02:11 PM

I've flip-flopped on the Santana issue numerous times now, but I hope he does indeed end up with the Mets....the Twins simply want too damn much from the Sox, yet obviously I don't want the Yanks getting stronger. Besides, it would make things more interesting in the putrid National League if the Mets are competitive again...and a one-two punch of Santana and a healthy Pedro might be enough to make a team the favorites in that awful league.

Posted by: DRM | January 10, 2008 at 03:26 PM

I know I've said I like Santana in Queens, just not sure which blog.

At 36 Jeter may be in the 1B mix. The man to push him is Carmen Angellini.

Posted by: BobK | January 10, 2008 at 04:54 PM

And remember the high spending Mets had the lead all year, but lost in the final second to the low spending Phillies, only for them to get swept in the first round by ?(the snakes or the rocks, help me)!

Posted by: BobK | January 10, 2008 at 04:58 PM

It was the Rockies who took out Philly in round 1...the D'backs took out the Cubbies.

I had to think about that a moment myself...that really was a forgettable postseason....I remember at the start I thought it had a chance to be one of the most thrilling in years, but the only series that was truly competitive was the ALCS between the Sawx and Cleveland.

Posted by: DRM | January 10, 2008 at 05:26 PM

I wanted Abreu over Sheff.

and Disgusted: back to ??????

Posted by: BobK | January 10, 2008 at 05:44 PM

I do also suspect the NL West may try to steal Santana from under Manaya's nose. I think they're rich enough, and even SF have some lose change with Barry gone. They spent big for Zito too, oh that one's funny!

Posted by: BobK | January 10, 2008 at 06:28 PM

As a Sox fan, I really would like to watch Lester pitch for us next year. Not because he is a role model for beating cancer, but because I think the guy can pitch. Santana to the Mets would be best for everyone involved.

And thank you for not jumping on the "Jaguars are going to beat the Pats" bandwagon that sports writers have stirred up. Weather pending, I agree. I expect the Pats to be moving on after this weekend. I want another Colts Pats battle!!!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7662484

Ken Rosenthal has been the senior baseball writer for FOXSports.com since Aug. 2005. He appears weekly on the FSN Baseball Report and MLB on FOX.
Updated: January 11, 2008, 10:30 AM EST 2 comments
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Pitchers and catchers report in a little over a month, yet as the plights of these 10 teams suggest, so much unfinished business remains.

Mets

For all the talk of Johan Santana, the Mets still seem more likely to sign free-agent right-hander Kyle Lohse than trade for the Twins' left-handed ace. The Twins, according to the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, want both of the Mets' top outfield prospects, Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez, in addition to pitching. The Mets view that price as excessive.

Should they? One rival executive points out that star outfielders are easier to acquire than No. 1 starting pitchers, who almost never reach free agency. Gomez, 22, still must prove he can hit major-league pitching, but the Mets are much more reluctant to trade Martinez, who reached Class AA last season at age 18. He could reach the majors at 19 and is expected to develop into an offensive machine.

The Mets remain the team most likely to sign Johan Santana. (Jim McIsaac / Getty Images)

True, Santana is just what the Mets need, an ace for a rotation that includes Pedro Martinez, Oliver Perez, John Maine and Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez. Lohse, 29, likely would cost more than $40 million over four years, a price that no rational team wants to pay. Still, Lohse performed well under pressure for the Phillies in the final two months last season, and his stuff and durability are appealing.

The Mets could rationalize that, by acquiring Lohse instead of Santana, they could back up their veteran starters with youngsters Mike Pelfrey, Philip Humber and Kevin Mulvey — and keep Gomez and Martinez, too. But none of those pitchers is expected to become a No. 1, and the Mets need an ace not only for this season, but also beyond.

Santana, who turns 29 on March 13, is four months younger than Lohse.

Yankees

It's difficult to argue with general manager Brian Cashman's reluctance to acquire Santana. The acquisition cost would be exorbitant, and the size of Santana's contract extreme. The problem is, the Yankees rotation without Santana might not provide enough innings.

Chien-Ming Wang, Andy Pettitte and Mike Mussina are the veterans; Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy the youngsters. Mussina, 39, has averaged 173 innings the past four seasons. The younger pitchers likely will follow prescribed innings limits. An injury to Wang or Pettitte would mean immediate trouble.

But the Yankees, after using 14 starters in 2005, 12 in '06 and 14 last season, are accustomed to summoning reinforcements. Their alternatives include the relatively experienced Kei Igawa, Jeff Karstens and Darrell Rasner, as well as youngsters such as Jeff Marquez, Alan Horne and Steven White.

Other teams are in a similar position, relying on younger pitchers for rotation depth, but the Yankees boast unparalleled resources. Cashman will look short-sighted if the Yankees come up short on pitching — a distinct possibility in the offensive-oriented American League.

Angels

The addition of right-hander Jon Garland further bolstered the pitching, but take a look at that infield: Chone Figgins, who is not a prototypical offensive third baseman; Erick Aybar, who has started only 13 major-league games at short; Howie Kendrick, who has played the equivalent of one full season; and Casey Kotchman, who has put together only one healthy season at first.

The Angels' front office is divided about how aggressively they should pursue White Sox first baseman Paul Konerko, because their greater need is at third. Kotchman had a nearly identical OPS to Konerko last season, and Kendry Morales, a switch-hitter, also should figure into the first-base/DH mix.

Figgins, the Angels' best leadoff man, needs to be in the lineup, but the addition of a third baseman would enable manager Mike Scioscia to move Figgins around, which was the plan if the Angels acquired Miguel Cabrera. Rather than pursue Konerko — and possibly give up Kendrick, a future batting champion — the Angels should revisit the trade market at third base.

Braves

Does anyone seriously expect the Braves to replace center fielder Andruw Jones with a combination of the unproven Josh Anderson, Gregor Blanco and Jordan Schafer? Maybe not, but that's the current plan.

At the moment, the Braves' interest in the A's Mark Kotsay is only exploratory, and they're also examining other short-term solutions. The idea is not to block Schafer, who has yet to play above Class A but could develop into another Steve Finley.

Andruw Jones' departure has left a gaping hole in center for the Braves. (Lisa Blumenfeld / Getty Images)

Kotsay, 32, would be a good fit if healthy, and he's a free agent at the end of the season. However, his $8 million salary is beyond the Braves' budget. The low-revenue A's would want a higher-caliber prospect if they included cash in the deal.

White Sox

This would be the perfect team to take a flier on Bartolo Colon or another pitcher coming off an injury. Jose Contreras, who posted a career-high 5.57 ERA last season, is the No. 3 starter, and the unproven John Danks and Gavin Floyd occupy the Nos. 4 and 5 spots. The White Sox need better to compete with the Indians and Tigers.

Youngsters Lance Broadway, Charlie Haeger and Jack Egbert all could contribute, but the White Sox's pitching questions are amplified by their plan to play Nick Swisher in center field. The Sox believe that Swisher improved last season and will benefit from playing in a smaller outfield, but let's not confuse him with Torii Hunter.

Cardinals

The reunion of Scott Rolen and Tony La Russa in spring training could produce more fireworks than the scheduled Roger Clemens-Brian McNamee showdown before Congress. But Rolen, coming off shoulder surgery and earning $33 million over the next three seasons, remains difficult to move.

The Cardinals do not want to lose more offense after trading Jim Edmonds and replacing David Eckstein with Cesar Izturis. Ideally they would like to add a more right-handed hitting outfielder to help reduce the pressure on Edmonds' projected replacement, Colby Rasmus.

Matt Clement, who did not pitch last season while recovering from shoulder surgery, is the only addition to the rotation. The team's goal will be to stay in contention early in the season, then get hot if Mark Mulder returns in May and Chris Carpenter at the All-Star break.

Padres

The physically questionable Edmonds takes over for Mike Cameron in center, and the Padres' current plan is to use Scott Hairston, a right-handed hitter, and Chase Headley, a switch-hitter in left. Such a platoon could work, but the Padres would benefit from more proven offense and better defense in left.

The pitching, first in the NL last season, could be even better if Randy Wolf and Mark Prior make successful returns from injuries. However, the Padres ranked only ninth in the NL in runs last season, and Cameron and Milton Bradley were two of their best offensive players. Run production again could be an issue.

Reds

Signing Francisco Cordero was nice, but Ken Rosenthal says the Reds haven't done much else. (Doug Benc / Getty Images)

OK, they spent $46 million on free-agent closer Francisco Cordero, but what else have they done to improve upon 72 wins for their new manager, Dusty Baker? Outside of trading center fielder Josh Hamilton to the Rangers for right-hander Edinson Volquez and minor-league lefty Danny Herrera, almost nothing.

The Reds want another quality starting pitcher to go with Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo, and they're willing to move right-hander Homer Bailey and first baseman Joey Votto to get the piece they need. Their problem is that they can't land an Erik Bedard without giving up their top outfield prospect, Jay Bruce. And Bruce is too valuable to move with Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr. entering the final years of their contracts.

Orioles

Both Bedard and second baseman Brian Roberts are two years away from free agency, so the Orioles could hold off trading them until the July 31 non-waiver deadline or even next off-season. Then again, it would be just like the Orioles to keep Bedard and then watch his value diminish due to an injury.

Enough already. The Orioles need to get on with the rebuilding plan that began with the trade of shortstop Miguel Tejada. After they move their most marketable players, they can start trying to purge their less attractive parts, starting with third baseman Melvin Mora.

At the moment, the Orioles have no idea who their shortstop, center fielder and closer will be, but who cares? They might lose 100 games if they trade Bedard and Roberts, but at least they would be adding to their young foundation and pointing toward a better future. Their fans are tired of seeing Jay Payton, Aubrey Huff and Co.

Brewers

It's difficult to imagine they will outbid the Yankees for center fielder Mike Cameron, so their free-agent choice might boil down to Kenny Lofton or Luis Gonzalez. Lofton offers on-base percentage at the top of the order, and his .414 slugging percentage with the Rangers and Indians last season wasn't significantly below Gonzalez's .433 mark with the Dodgers.

The Brewers also could obtain a third baseman and move Ryan Braun to left field, or swap center fielder Bill Hall for a left-handed hitter. The team, however, has found it difficult to match up for a third baseman in a trade, and has little interest in free-agent third baseman Pedro Feliz due to his .288 career on-base percentage. Hall could move to third if the Brewers sign Cameron.

Top remaining trade candidates

Johan Santana (Twins, LHP); Erik Bedard (Orioles, LHP); Joe Blanton (A's, RHP); Brian Roberts (Orioles, 2B); Coco Crsip (Red Sox, CF); Mark Kotsay (A's, CF); Bill Hall (Brewers, CF); Scott Rolen (Cardinals, 3B); Brandon Inge (Tigers, 3B); Joe Crede (White Sox, 3B).

Recognizable names remaining on the free-agent market

Pitchers: Kyle Lohse; Livan Hernandez; Josh Fogg; Bartolo Colon; Jon Lieber; Kris Benson; Freddy Garcia; Jason Jennings; Brett Tomko; Steve Trachsel.

Relievers: Jeremy Affeldt; Akinori Otsuka; Shawn Chacon; Octavio Dotel; Armando Benitez; Ron Villone.

Catchers: Rod Barajas; Johnny Estrada; Mike Lieberthal; Mike Piazza.

First basemen: Sean Casey; Tony Clark; Shea Hillenbrand; Eric Hinske; Doug Mientkiewicz; Mike Sweeney.

Second basemen: Tony Graffanino; Jerry Hairston Jr.; Jose Valentin.

Shortstops: Alex Cintron; Royce Clayton.

Third basemen: Pedro Feliz; Morgan Ensberg; Jeff Cirillo.

Outfielders: Barry Bonds; Sammy Sosa; Mike Cameron; Corey Patterson; Kenny Lofton; Shannon Stewart; Luis Gonzalez; Trot Nixon; Bobby Kielty; Brad Wilkerson; Shawn Green

Buzz: Santana in the Driver’s Seat

According to multiple reports, the Mets may be in the driver’s seat with regards to Twins LHP Johan Santana.

…from what i can tell, it’s not the Mets or the Twins who are in the driver’s seat, though, it’s santana who is in the driver’s seat…

…yesterday’s report in the Star-Tribune really kicked up a lot of buzz, most of which i had been writing for weeks, and some that i had been sitting on but which is now slowly being confirmed…

…in the last day or so i have talked with people who are involved in these talks and who are closely watching it from the inside, as well as people who are connected to santana, and while a lot of details may be up left to interpretation, one thing for certain is that the Mets are seriously interested, they are the only major, pro-active player who is dealing with the Twins and things between the two sides are progressing…

According to WFAN’s Mike Francesa, speaking on air yesterday afternoon, the Twins continue to ask the Mets for Jose Reyes, which is essentially holding up the trade.

…from what i can gather, having talked with people connected to the teams and to reyes and to santana, as i wrote back in December, the Mets and Twins understand who can and cannot be involved in a potential trade…and while i believe the Mets are open to trading Fernando Martinez, though they do not want to and still feel they may not have to, the Twins understand that Jose Reyes is totally off the table - despite what francesa is saying, and others are reporting from time to time…

…by the way, thanks to Peter Wade for the WFAN information…

Meanwhile, according to today’s Daily News, as well as the Bergen Record, the Twins have yet to decide if they want major league-ready pieces or prospects.

…actually, i have heard it this way as well, which may be why some people keep fixating on reyes…i wonder if people hear ‘major-league ready talent’ and logically assume it means reyes…i rarely, if ever, hear specific names mentioned - so, to me, i have always interpreted ‘major-league ready talent’ to mean Aaron Heilman, because, from what i understand, the Twins have no interest in acquiring and paying a player like reyes, who is due roughly $20 million over the next three years…

…as for the Mets competition, as long as the Yankees hold on to Phil Hughes, which they still intend to do, the Mets are the only major, pro-active player for santana, who, by the way, still prefers to be on the Mets - as i have been writing for weeks…

…additionally, as i understand it, santana wants to know who he will be pitching for before pitchers and catchers report, especially if he’ll be switching leagues like he prefers to do - which is why i believe there will be a conclusion to this story before February, i.e., two to three weeks…

…so, if santana prefers to be on the Mets, as others have started to write of late as well, my question is: just how badly does he want that to happen…because, in some ways, he can dictate where he ends up…

Remember, in late October, he told the Star-Tribune that he will waive his no-trade clause - assuming he is appropriately compensated and is traded to a team with a legitimate chance of winning a World Series.

Later that month, reports indicated that Santana would consider vetoing a trade during the season so to encourage the Twins to make a move before opening day.

…from what i can tell, the Twins best card to play is ‘time,’ i.e., being able to drag their feet while being indecisive in hopes that a team like the Mets get nervous and overpay just to get a deal done…meanwhile, the Mets best card to play is understanding that santana prefers to pitch for them…

…the thing is, to what extent will santana go to force minnesota’s hand, which would then eliminate their luxury of time and help the Mets as well…
Posted in Johan Santana on January 11th, 2008
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26 Comments »
Comment by Shea Faithful
2008-01-11 10:37:53

I don’t seem to understand how the Twins can still be demanding Reyes, and any reports of this are avoiding the reality that the Mets are the only team negotiating with any forward progress. That can always change, but the Yankees and Red Sox seem to be leaning in other directions. If this is indeed a one-horse race at the moment, why should the Mets even budge on Martinez, let alone Reyes? It’s a staring contest and I don’t think Omar should blink first. Santana would make the Mets a contender for the foreseeable future.
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Comment by gowrightgo
2008-01-11 10:42:20

Let the deal come to us rather than chase it….I like it
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Comment by mikey_FF
2008-01-11 11:05:11

Good stuff. This is why you don’t just hand over every top prospect in the farm. Omar is playing his hand right. I really believe this can get done without giving up F-Mart.
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Comment by docgood86
2008-01-11 10:41:50

Did anyone hear Ed coleman on MLB radiocast last night? A friend of mine said he heard it and Ed said that omar hasn’t talked to the Twins since the winter meetings and anything that were hearing is false. Can someone confirm that they heard this? I mean it seemed like things were moving forward but if this report is true then it’s just media fabrication and the mets are nowhere close to working a deal for Santana.
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Comment by The Glider
2008-01-11 10:48:39

I gotta believe that that’s just “trade-speak” if you know what I mean? The teams are being tight-lipped about it. I wouldn’t believe that stuff.
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Comment by Hit The Weights Zeile
2008-01-11 11:12:52

i cant imagine thats true. i mean even if the twins will only take reyes. you have to figure the two sides have talked for no reason other than omar knows he needs santana and is definitely going to do everything in his power to get him as long as he’s still a twin. that report makes it sound too much like omar said “they wont do it w.o reyes, ok i give up time to go on vacation”.
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Comment by cbusmetsfan
2008-01-11 11:10:10

Go to Mlb.com and you can see the 10 minute interview with Coleman. He states that Omar is in Israel but he talked to him and he is easily reachable.

The 5 for 1 seems a bit steep. I wonder if the Mets can get the Twins to throw in a AA player in return with Johan, someone who is decent, could soften the blow of losing 5 guys for 1. Maybe the guy turns out to be something maybe he’s a stiff. But, getting some sort of OF or pitcher with Johan would be nice.

Any one hear the FAN yesterday when they were comparing this to about 20 years ago when the Mets traded for Viola…a 29 year old lefty Twin; 4 or 5 players for 1 stud pitcher. Very similar circumstances…
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Comment by MetNTX
2008-01-11 10:42:02

Reyes is not going anywhere. All of this is talk until Omar the Met Maker comes back to the USA. Til then its the NY writers and the Minn writers postulating.
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Comment by jspicyn
2008-01-11 10:42:29

I’d do it if they could even hang onto Gomez while trading Martinez. Ideally, of course, I’d try to hold onto Martinez. I think it’s pretty clear a deal will soon get done. Im very excited.
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Comment by Hit The Weights Zeile
2008-01-11 10:42:57

im a patient man, but 2 or 3 more weeks? ugh. if he ends up not being traded this will be the biggest **** tease EVER.
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Comment by Bench5urvivor
2008-01-11 10:44:20

I think Francessa’s newspaper subscriptions ran out and he’s just looking at the same article from a month ago and continuing to make mindless claims.

I like the possible deal, we ABSOLUTELY NEED JOHAN!!! but we also need to keep one of our “Big 3″
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Comment by MetNTX
2008-01-11 10:44:27

Looks like the AAA team is going to Syracuse in 2009 as they are making a big push for them. Great article in the Syracuse newspaper today.
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Comment by GravediggerHebner
2008-01-11 11:02:03

tried to post the link but don’t see it here. It’s syracuse.com, headline is “Schumer: Syracuse can get Mets.”
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Comment by QnsNative718
2008-01-11 10:47:17

Whats this I read in the Post that the Mets are unwilling to part with our 5 guys???
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Comment by The Glider
2008-01-11 10:50:11

I say “sit tight Omar.” I think we may even be able to pull this off WITHOUT giving up F-Mart. We just gotta sit and wait out the Twins and hope the Yanks don’t give up Hughes. If they do, then throw in F-Mart.
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Comment by jspicyn
2008-01-11 10:55:42

Glider’s right. Sit tight, try to hold your ground, but if the Yanks do offer Hughes the Mets can’t top that without including Gomez and Fernando. They just can’t - Hughes is a sure thing and he’s young, he could be the ace of almost any team in baseball within 2-3 years. The kid’s a stud and if the Yanks start dangling him with cabrera (who is being undervalued, btw) and some mid levels again, I’d be willing to give up these 5 guys for him. The Mets just need Santana. For those of you who don’t want to ’sell the farm,’ what do you want? To have the same hole year after year? I just don’t get it, the Mets aren’t winning anything without a boost in SP and the probability is that only 1 or 2 of these 5 prospects will pan out anyways
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Comment by Hit The Weights Zeile
2008-01-11 11:07:37

agree 100%, if we dont trade for santana we’ll need an ace EVEN MORE next year bc pedro will either be gone or even OLDER. who knows who will resign by next offseason so we could be looking AGAIN for an ace after 09. this is a huge need that will not go away until its filled. but i do agree about sitting tight. only offer fmart+gomez if you have to ie hank the skank offers up hughes +.
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Comment by boredatwork
2008-01-11 10:54:00

look at this : http://www.startribune.com/video/11669006.html
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Comment by GravediggerHebner
2008-01-11 11:05:17

I especially like the final strike call “Have a nice day!”
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Comment by boredatwork
2008-01-11 11:14:29

sick movement!
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Comment by wynton
2008-01-11 10:54:03

Is Francesa really that stupid and out of touch? Or is he trying to make mischief by repeating the story about Reyes?
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Comment by Slob
2008-01-11 10:57:27

Are you really asking that question?
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Comment by RichardK
2008-01-11 11:09:11

The only thing that is going to get me out of the Baseball Depression I have been in since September is Santana, not Blanton or anyone else…

Collapses like last year MUST be compensated for, theres only so much a fan can take.

The Mets Ownership owes us this, I just hope I’m not getting setup for a huge disappointment here.
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Comment by Kalihan42
2008-01-11 11:11:45

I still think we should find a 5th starter that we can get for 2 years in the mean time so we can posture that we are happy with out team as it is. It will give us a bit more leverage. The thing that I wonder is why not see if we can trade Maine, Gomez and maybe Mulvey and/or Pelfrey. The Twins NEED Major league ready starters with what they are loosing this off season. We can sign a guy like Silva in the mean time and not give p the whole farm. Not sure they will take it but a rotation of

Santana
Pedro
O.P.
SIlva
El Duque /Humber

is not too bad. It is also the type of rotation Minaya like (Hispanic heavy)

Either way I am happy trading just about anytthing for Santan (even if we are over payinig). A chance to lock up a guy like Santana does not happen very often
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Comment by puffbobby
2008-01-11 11:12:38

i dont think we need santana… church, schneider, and pagan. Our offseason has been great! Keep up the good-non work omar….. uh…. um,.. you know what im saying.
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Comment by professor met
2008-01-11 11:14:11

mulvey, guerra, gomez, humber and the entire city of syracuse should get it done.

Yankees after Mike Cameron

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post Today, 12:18 AM
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QUOTE
The Brewers face strong competition for free-agent center fielder Mike Cameron, perhaps stronger than they even imagined.

The Yankees are showing serious interest in Cameron, major-league sources say, figuring that they could trade center fielder Melky Cabrera even if they do not send him to the Twins for left-hander Johan Santana.
Source: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7659616...3162&ATT=49


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What a retard move that would be. Mike Cameron is a 34 year old career .341 OBP guy who has no pop left in that bat.


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QUOTE(rembrat @ Jan 11 2008, 12:24 AM) *
What a retard move that would be. Mike Cameron is a 34 year old career .341 OBP guy who has no pop left in that bat.


Completely disagree.

Cameron is better than Melky in every aspect of the game. And if some team wants Melky and is willing to overpay for him with a nice prospect or a bullpen arm with upside it is a plus on two fronts for the Yankees. Cameron would also add some right handed power which the lineup has obviously been lacking in. Melky is not the long term answer in CF and neither is Cameron, but he is keeping the seat warm for the guy who might be Austin Jackson.

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Those teams include the Cubs, Reds, Braves, Royals and Pirates.


A lot of team would be interested in Melky, and should be interesting to see what they could get for him.
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QUOTE(Wingack @ Jan 11 2008, 12:38 AM) *
Completely disagree.

Cameron is better than Melky in every aspect of the game. And if some team wants Melky and is willing to overpay for him with a nice prospect or a bullpen arm with upside it is a plus on two fronts for the Yankees. Cameron would also add some right handed power which the lineup has obviously been lacking in. Melky is not the long term answer in CF and neither is Cameron, but he is keeping the seat warm for the guy who might be Austin Jackson.
A lot of team would be interested in Melky, and should be interesting to see what they could get for him.


That way of looking at it only works if what you get back for Cabrera is really worth it. It’s been said over and over that Cabrera has yet to show any power but he is still relatively young in baseball years, he might still develop some kind of power. The Yankees would be better off if they hold on to him until he has more value. Also, Austin Jackson had a pretty good half a season in Tampa with a high BABIP, lets hold off appointing him the heir apparent centerfielder for a little bit.


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QUOTE(rembrat @ Jan 11 2008, 01:02 AM) *
That way of looking at it only works if what you get back for Cabrera is really worth it.


They are not going to just give him away. There is a market out there for him and they would take the best whole and fill holes in other places (like the bullpen). Acquring Cameron is hardly a "retard move".

QUOTE
It’s been said over and over that Cabrera has yet to show any power but he is still relatively young in baseball years, he might still develop some kind of power. The Yankees would be better off if they hold on to him until he has more value.


He also could be at his peak. Cameron on the other hand could hit 25 HR's next year (he hit 21 last year, with his home park being Petco), a number I don't think Melky will ever sniff.

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Also, Austin Jackson had a pretty good half a season in Tampa with a high BABIP, lets hold off appointing him the heir apparent centerfielder for a little bit.



Fair enough, but there are options in the minors with high ceilings than Melky.

This post has been edited by Wingack: Today, 01:14 AM
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post Today, 09:59 AM
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QUOTE( Wingack)
He also could be at his peak. Cameron on the other hand could hit 25 HR's next year (he hit 21 last year, with his home park being Petco), a number I don't think Melky will ever sniff.

The cases of a guy's power peaking at age 22 is VERY rare. (unless he hit 30+ HR or something ) I would agree that Melky doesn't have a lot of power projection in him. but I would expect him to at least crack double figure at some point unless he gets run over by a car.

Cameron's game is also not without flaw. he's always going to whiff alot and thus his BA is never going to be that great. there's a fairly good chance that Cabrera could at least out OBP a guy who cracked .360 OBP once in his career.

He IS a better player than Cabrera . but He's also been looking like he's comming close to major decline. that he's banned for 25 game isn't helpful either.

Anyway. I certainly would have no problem if this means the Yanks land Santana or something very good with Melky, but somehow I have a hard time seeing that happening. I really hope they don't go and throw him for a Mike Gonzalez or something wink.gif

Austin Jackson is at least 1+ season away from the major if things go right. he looks like a great prospect right now but to think that he's going to be ready in significantly less than 2 season is just wrong. check out Vernon Well / Curtis Grandson's line in the FSL against Jackson's and how long it took them to establish themself after A+. even if Jackson beats them it's still going to be awhile (btw, Jackson profile is so amazingly similar to Granderson ... very similar size. both big basketball stars in HS.... even their game is somewhat similar... )
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post Today, 10:07 AM
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It probably means the Yankees are looking to move Melky, but I think it also shows what a number of people have been saying for a long time: Melky Cabrera is a far more pedestrian player with far less upside than many seem to think he is. Nice player, cost-controlled, but not a guy a high-budget team aspires to rely on.


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post Today, 10:08 AM
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As a Sox fan I would love to see the Yankees sign Cameron.
His D isn't close to what it used to be, he is 34, not a real threat with the bat and is suspended for the first 25gms.
As overrated as Melky is in CF, he is still probably better than Cameron will be next yr, nevermind the next 2-3 yrs (I've got to assume he gets at least a 3yr deal).

If they sign Cameron and trade Melky they would likely have the oldest OF in baseball.
Andruw Jones would have made a lot more sense for the NYY than Cameron

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BA's MFY top 10 prospects

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offlinejspearlj1 Unread Message #26 [url] [-]

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01/08/08 2:04 PM


I see Gardner as very much like Juan Pierre in terms of overall value. Once he gets to the bigs the IF defense will cheat him and take away a lot of his GB hits and pitchers will cut down on his OBP because they'll just pound the zone since the worst he could do is a single. He doesn't have the crazy good contact ability that Pierre does to hit to the holes in the IF so his average is likely to fall in the 270ish range, however his OBP ability should compensate enough to place him around a 330 OBP, coupled with his better defense and still very good SB ability he'll have a good amount of value to some team. That being said since I've never seen the guy play there could very well be an issue in terms of scouting that would make him look more like a backup (maybe really bad contact issues that I dont see in last year's stats). Basically he's got some value, but to put him over the guys that Manuel put him over is a bit much.

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onlineAMarshal2 Unread Message #27 [url] [-]

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From the descriptions it sounds like Gardner should be thrilled to be Juan Pierre. I remember being intrigued by Joey Gathright until I saw him play for the first time. Totally overmatched by MLB pitchers with no real swing to keep them honest. It still shocks me that Dayton Moore traded anything to get him. I remain convinced he'll never be a regular. I think Gardner looks an awful lot like he's on the Joey Gathright/Wily Taveras career path more so than even a Juan Pierre. When your best case scenario is a borderline major leaguer (Pierre) then you're nobody's top 10 prospect.

I say this all without ever having the pleasure of seeing Gardner swing. Anytime you have to base your opinion entirely off of stats and 2nd hand reports there should be some "take this fwiw" type of caveat. The moment I first saw Ellsbury swing (in the CWS after the draft) I knew he had a reasonable offensive upside. I've questioned his power at times but I never thought he profiled like Pierre or Brett Butler.

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offlinejspearlj1 Unread Message #28 [url] [-]

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01/08/08 2:13 PM

Yeah I suppose Gathright with better defense is a better comp, which is suprisingly a bottom tier starting CF not a 5th OF or 4th if everything goes right.

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offlinePrahaSMC Unread Message #29 [url] [-]

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01/10/08 7:24 PM


AMarshal2 wrote: I think Gardner looks an awful lot like he's on the Joey Gathright/Wily Taveras career path more so than even a Juan Pierre. When your best case scenario is a borderline major leaguer (Pierre) then you're nobody's top 10 prospect.

I understand that Pierre is heinously overpaid, but to call him a borderline major leaguer is excessive. Pierre is a career .301 hitter with a .348 OBP. Moreover, he's had two seasons where he's batted over .320 with a .370+ OBP, .400 SLG%, and 45 SB.

Obviously, a career .257 Eqa, and a WARP3 of >4 in each of the last three seasons suggests a high degree of futility, but last season the average NL CF'er posted a .275/.339/.433 line (.772 OPS). In his best seasons, he exceeded those numbes and added additional value on the basepaths. If the higher end projection for Gardner is that Juan Pierre, then he's a very useful player going forward. If, on the other hand, he is the Juan Pierre of the '06 and '07 Dodgers, then point taken.

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offlineArquimedez Bozo Unread Message #30 [url] [-]

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01/10/08 7:44 PM

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Before it even starts, please do not get the Juan Pierre argument going in yet another thread. Seriously, when the hell did he become the new Kevin Youkilis on here???? Yikes.

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